- This topic has 18 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 6 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
-
I have a Jinma 284 with Yangdong 385.
I put in new fuel pump, timed it, changed fuel filter, drained tank, cleaned fuel seperator and put fresh fuel in it.
It will start and run a few seconds then act like it is missing for a while and quit.
When I loosen the connection at the pump in the line from the filter I get spurts of air in with the fuel. I am thinking this is the problem, could be wrong. Does this sound right???? If so how could I be getting air in the fuel.
Just spread 6 yards of gravel by HAND and need it running.
Dick
-
It's running out of fuel, you have to start at the fuel tank to the injector pump.
Check flow, screens inside fuel line,fuel filter, did you put oil in injector pump ? If you are getting air,it could be several things. Have you tried pumping the fuel primer as it's running and wanting to quit ? Any change ? Why did you change the injector pump ? How did you time it ? What did you set the timing too ?
Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
“Your Jinma Parts Superstore”
-
-
I remember adding oil to the pump as I can remember asking which port was the full line. I forget what you had me add.
I did just go out and use the plunger as it was running. It did run a lot longer. A few time it would run rough and smooth out then back to rough. Finally it just quit. This time I didn't see any air in the line when I loosened it.
-
Is it running smooth no black smoke when it is running ? I still say it's starving for fuel,take the supply line off the bottom of the fuel injector pump,turn the valve on to see how much flow you have,there is a thimble screen inside the same bolt that holds that line on.When you pump the primer is it hard or easy to push ?On the new injector pump there is a check valve bolt that holds the fuel line on to the front or back side of the pump,where is the check valve bolt on the front line ? or the back line ? The check valve bolt looks like a bolt inside another bolt.
Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
“Your Jinma Parts Superstore”
-
My limited knowledge makes me agree that it is not getting fuel.
When I drained the tank that is where I drained it and ran the fuel out freely.
When it runs smoothly there is no black smoke. When it runs rough there is no black smoke.
To me when it runs smooth its like all cylinders are firing, when it runs rough its like one cylinder is not firing then kaput kaput like only one is fireing before it dies????
Not sure of your FRONT AND BACK of pump. The double bolt is in the line from the filter oposite end from drive shaft of the pump. That is where I was draining and had air.
Originally when pushing the plunger on the prime pump I could not get it to push HARD. I took the plunger off the old pump and put it on the new one. Soft and easy the first several pushes then hard.
Thank you so much for your help so far
Dick
-
Dick, move the double bolt from the back line to the front line (front of engine side, or call me so I can explain it to youTommy
713-202-2795.
Affordable Tractor Sales
“Your Jinma Parts Superstore”
-
An extra bale of hay for your coral tonight
when you told me that was a check valve, I thought it was a bleed port, it didn't make sense for it to be on that side. Checked the old one and it was reversed.
Starts fine, runs fine.
When I tromp on the throttle I do get some black smoke. Should I be concerned???
Thanks so much for your help and patience.
Dick
-
Yes when you tromp the throttle be concerned, because it is $ 4.10 a gallon to refill the tank
Glad we could help you get it going
Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
” Your Jinma Parts Superstore”
-
FWIW, It is not considered a check valve. Think about it. The fuel return line goes into the top of the tank. Why would you care if there was a check valve in the return line? It is a PRESSURE REGULATING VALVE! It's purpose is to provide resistance against the lift pump in order to keep the fuel cavity (chamber) in the fuel injection pump under pressure so the helix in the plungers can pick up fuel.
Account deleted.
-
Quote Bob Rooks;
#1; FWIW,
#2; It is not considered a check valve.
#3; Think about it.
#4; The fuel return line goes into the top of the tank.
#5; Why would you care if there was a check valve in the return line?
#6; It is a PRESSURE REGULATING VALVE!
#7; It's purpose is to provide resistance against the lift pump in order to keep the fuel cavity (chamber) in the fuel injection pump under pressure so the helix in the plungers can pick up fuel.
#1; Maybe we can find out ?
#2; Really?. In some of your other post/videos you are stating that it is a relief valve, adjustable Pressure Regulating Valve and now a PRESSURE REGULATING VALVE!??
#3; Back at ya….. maybe Google >> Check Valve…… the word, pictures & videos.
#4; Agreed…..but not quiet on top.
#5; Then How would you protect unfiltered fuel from entering the plunger pump chamber after shut down ?? and or keep a vacuum lock on the fuel chamber/fuel supply side for quicker start ups after setting/shut down….. ((maybe the word prime?))??
#6; So if it is REGULATING as fuel passes through ……… What happens or goes wrong when the fuel reenters the fuel tank unregulated??
#7; Then why will the engine perform with the check valve (aka PRESSURE REGULATING VALVE!) in my pocket….at idle, full throttle, full load etc… ??.
Ronald
-
Hi Ronald,
#2; Really?. In some of your other post/videos you are stating that it is a relief valve, adjustable Pressure Regulating Valve and now a PRESSURE REGULATING VALVE!??
Some are adjustable, some are not. The ones with a bolt in the end ARE adjustable via spring pressure. You may also refer to it as an adjustable relief valve. The issue here is semantics: The valve in question is not intended to check or stop flow.
#3; Back at ya….. maybe Google >> Check Valve…… the word, pictures & videos.
In this application it is not considered a check valve because that is not it's function – to check or stop flow. In other applications where back flow is not allowed it would be considered a check valve.
#4; Agreed…..but not quiet on top.
Most all diesel engines equipped with fuel return lines will have them return on or near the top of the tank, or there will be a standpipe inside the tank. Quite so.
#5; Then How would you protect unfiltered fuel from entering the plunger pump chamber after shut down ?? and or keep a vacuum lock on the fuel chamber/fuel supply side for quicker start ups after setting/shut down….. ((maybe the word prime?))??
a) The fuel in the return line has already been filtered (reason for the return line entering the top of the tank is to prevent cross-contamination). b) Why would you want a vacuum in the fuel chamber? The built-in check valves in the lift pump are supposed to prevent a bleed-back from happening. c) Quicker startups? Prime? Lost me there.
#6; So if it is REGULATING as fuel passes through ……… What happens or goes wrong when the fuel reenters the fuel tank unregulated??
The fuel is regulated BEFORE it passes through the valve. The valve spring pressure creates resistance (back pressure), approximately 20 – 35 psig, upstream of the valve toward the fuel filter (this is where you would install a fuel pressure gauge). The return fuel downstream of the valve is always unregulated, it just goes back into the tank. All diesels are like that.
#7; Then why will the engine perform with the check valve (aka PRESSURE REGULATING VALVE!) in my pocket….at idle, full throttle, full load etc… ??.
Simple. There is ample fuel supply from the lift pump to keep the fuel chamber nominally “charged”. I will speculate the engine will not perform equally well under operating conditions – ie: full governor demand for a period of time, hilly terrain, etc. Plow a field without it and let me know what happens. If you claim they are unnecessary, then maybe you can tell me why they are installed on virtually all diesel engines?
Forgot to mention to Google “relief valve”, “adjustable relief valve”, “pressure regulating valve”, etc.
Account deleted.
-
In this instance it's referred to as the Volume Control Valve (VCV).
Detroit Diesel calls it a Combination Pressure Regulator/Check Valve.
Uses are not limited in scope to diesel engines only. See here.
I could go on and on, but
My apologies to Dick for going off on a tangent in his thread. I only meant to clarify, not hijack.
Account deleted.
-
Hello Bob,
I see you have been busy Googleing and have made several comments/links about several different injection pumps designs which all incorporates different fuel supply and delivery designs that are chosen by different manufactures. Would have been nice if it pertained to the fuel system in this tractor.
While in theory…… a diesel is a diesel ….. they all don't have the same fuel supply & delivery set up.
My technical comments in this thread are directed to the engine and fuel system that is in the Jinma 284 that Dick started.
I am a very uneducated man compared to what you have posted yourself as having….. good job!.
To me it seems you have a lot of paper knowledge and have not been able to apply all your theory's
to real life (hands on) to be able to see that the book is only a guide.
Tell ya what do, need some more clarifications.
Need more pictures and videos that your very good at. Like this one.>> CLICK HERE
If possible try not to use a Tire Pressure Gauge or R12 Freon Gauge. A Gauge design/manufactured for fuel and vacuum has given me much more true readings in the past.
Do these test at 15 second cranking speeds and note, with Check Valve Installed.
1; Vacuum reading on suction side of lift pump.
2; See if lift pump suction side holds a vacuum after 15 sec crank.
3; Lift pump dead head pressure reading at pump.
4: See if pressure reading holds after 15 sec crank.
Engine Running at idle. With Check Valve Installed.
1; Lift pump pressure reading at inlet of injection pump fuel chamber.
2; See if pressure reading holds when shut down.
Compare these two readings to crank test reading.
Remove air from system so engine will start and idle. After idling say 1-2 minutes … shut down the engine. Remove banjo bolt from fuel line feed on the inlet side fuel chamber …… take note of how much fuel runs outs of chamber while removing and completely out. Now break loose the banjo bolt on the outlet side of the fuel chamber that contains the check valve. Now take note of how much fuel comes out the inlet of the chamber and the fuel return line especially if the fuel level in the tank is above/over the return port in the side of the tank.(inside of the tank is what I call unfiltered fuel. Might give you a idea of what happens with out the check valve installed??.
The check valves you mentioned in the lift pump. One is for the hand pump and the other is for the piston . Did your pressure reading show it will hold after shut down?
When you show/state the check valve is relieving when the needle bounces on your gauge. Tid Bit… a piston pump of that design makes the fluid pulse which makes the needle on the gauge bounce…. crazy ain't it.
How much psi does it take to lift the check ball off it's seat?
Show how the check valve (the one you say is adjustable) is design to be adjusted. And how adjustments effects engine performance.
Never said the check valve was not necessary. You are the one demanding that it be known that it is not a check valve with a theory of 36 different designs that's not this tractor,lol.
….. I am just saying it will run, at full throttle, at max load and hold it without the check valve installed. Done it more than one time on the Dyno. I found out by mistake/luck when rigging up fuel pressure gauges at different places at idle, under load etc. For me it is hard to recognize bad when I don't know what good is. Had to do something if I am going to work on them …… again, no good books with any type of real reference. Make my own know good specs as I go. Been doing it 6 years now on Jinma's and still don't know nothing.
Ronald
Ranch Hand Supply
-
-
-
-
I'm just a shade tree mechanic at best, I may say thinga ma-jiggy, or Check valve,ect. which may not be right name, but it will get ya going.I'm sure there may be a different name for that bolt, but it has a ball with a spring in it so I called it a check valve bolt.
Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
” Your Jinma Parts Superstore”
-
Dick , I hear what you are saying about Tommy , ….. I have thrown him a couples of bales myself. Most all of us need help from time to time.For me it is not a debate on what Tommy called it at all …….. it’s what it is. Sometimes the new replacement injection pumps come with the check valve installed in the inlet side… which is the wrong side as you know. Fuel pushes against the already spring load check ball and fuel will not pass through. Throws some people off when they don’t see'/notice the difference that one has the check ball in it…. both inlet and out let same size/thread. Glad you got it going !. I can’t / don’t live in front of these tractor boards.Owners & new owners are starving for info on these Jinma tractors new or used due to the fact no good books. They find these tractors boards and some go with the first thing they read or find out without researching what they found out to be good or bad info. When Bob Rooks 1st posted all of his documentations with his theory of operation and descriptions ……. seemed like everyone that thought they had a fuel problem wonted a replacement check valve bolt after reading his post’s ( took awhile for me to figure out what they were talking about). Then a call or email back that it did not fix it, can I send it back etc….. after 4-5 I found out they had read his post. Some think old threads die. I called a couple of other guys that sell Jinma parts and ask them if they have had a increase in injection pump check valve sells all said yes. On this side of the fence the check valve was a VERY, Very slow moving part until now. I Don’t mind the business but hate it when it don’t fix it.I was hoping that Bob Rooks could answer the questions about his post number 10 with some kind of technical meaning that applied to your tractor that readers could use/trouble shoot/research there fuel problem without guessing $$$$$.Appears that Bob Rooks wants me over here >>> CLICK HERERonaldRanch Hand Supply
-
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.