td 3500 terraplane question.

This is a pic of a Terramite TD3500 that was in an auction a while back. Went for only $7k. Don't know year but appears to be a newer model with a shuttle clutch

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After looking at your pics of “here's the leak”, this dozer looks familiar.

If you say oil is coming out of the top cover plate of that section, check all of the hose connections and the cover gasket, and do NOT check the dipstick with the engine running – you will get wet!

Need to know if your shuttle clutch has a hydraulic accumulator in the left saddlebag, and also if the left saddlebag contains a dedicated hydraulic oil reservoir for the shuttle clutch.

You may not have to pull the engine.

There should be about three gallons of oil in the shuttle clutch housing and about five gallons of oil in the left saddlebag reservoir when the engine is stopped. There are a couple of reasons why the dozer won't move: 1) Failure of the shuttle clutch input shaft splines. (This requires engine removal and clutch component disassembly). 2) Hydraulic issues. Some can be repaired without much disassembly, others not so.

I have a manual for the shuttle clutch on a PDF file that I can send you along with some helpful hints by another owner, although if you want my help you must answer my questions, so I will reiterate:

Need to know if your shuttle clutch has a hydraulic accumulator in the left saddlebag, and also if the left saddlebag contains a dedicated hydraulic oil reservoir for the shuttle clutch.

PM me with your email addy.

I'm not very good at mind reading anymore – too many women… 

Find out what kind of oil is in the shuttle clutch, this is important.

More than likely the pump suction screen has never been cleaned, this will prevent the pump from scavenging the clutch housing.

There are no check valves in the shuttle clutch hydraulic system.

Your manual is on it's way.

Plan B wrote:

Ok i hauled it to my inlaws house to work on it. We ran it and from what i can see there is an accumulator in left saddle bag and a tank like i said before. Not sure what kind of oil is in it but it looks like regular hydro. Where is this screen at? Should be a three bolt flange on the bottom right side of the clutch housing, which is the pump suction. You may have a return line filter in the left saddlebag also, or instead of.

Whats the direction of the oil flow? Im guessing it sucks from the bottom right  side of the clutch housing and sends pressure to the “T” fitting between the tank and rotate valve. Correct.

Im not so sure the pump is pumping anything cause when you work the rotate valve nothing pressures up….no hoses move at all!! but the blade controls on right side work great!! There are two independent hydraulic systems, one for the clutch and one for tractor hydraulics.

and there seems to be a pump for each side..one mounted on back and one mount directly in front of it. Am i right? Correct. The pump in front is for the clutch only.

any idea what the psi i should be and where i should check it? Im guessing at that “T”. Pressure should be between 35 and 45 psig. The tee would be a good place to tap into, and make certain that you don't deadhead the pump.

Phillip @ Circle G Tractor, Eric @ Keno Tractor, or try any of the contributing dealers on this site. I will speculate that it may be the same pump used on the 304/354 Jinma wheeled tractors for power steering but I have yet to verify this. Does your pump have a name plate on it?

Circle G has quite an extensive inventory of dozer parts online.

The gauge on the return filter won't show any pressure anyway unless there there is a restriction in the filter. The filter also has a built-in 15 psig by-pass valve. You may get the needle to jump a little when the oil is cold while exercising the selector (rotate) valve.

You might also want to check the relief valve in that pump, it may just be stuck.

I will also speculate that the tractor was run for quite awhile with the original crapoil in the clutch before it was changed over to the wrong oil, and then possibly run dry, however that scenario could be reversed.

When you get the number off of the pump, contact one of the stocking dealers that contribute to this site and compare numbers. You may still have to compare bolt patttern dimensions, drive tang, etc.

The correct oil to use in the shuttle clutch is ISO AW 220 MACHINE OIL. This particular oil has an AGMA rating. Any brand will do.

Check with Circle G on these pumps: CBT-E3 and HLCB-D06. Eric at Keno, Tommy at Affordable, and Ronald at Ranch Hand should also stock these pumps.

Don't expect a lot of pressure, only 35 – 45 psig, and don't expect a lot of volume either, it's a pretty small pump. Another reason you aren't getting much pressure is that the accumulator isn't charged. Do NOT attempt to take it apart.

Did you check the pump suction screen in the clutch housing? Plugged? The mere fact that some oil is coming out tells you that the pump is working.

or perhaps this pdf is more complete….do you see what you are looking for anywhere in here?

http://www.perkinsproducts.com…..icants.pdf

Grizz wrote:

“Is this the stuff you are referring to?”

Yes and no . They are referring to “machine oil” generically.

The VG designation refers to the Viscosity Grade of the base stock.

The AW designation refers to Anti-Wear additive package.

Oils are formulated from base stocks with specific additive packages  for specific applications. Some oils are a “compromise”, but generally will perform better in one application or another.

Light reading:

Chevron ISO AW 220 Machine Oil.  Shell Tellus AW 220  Mobil SHC 600 Series

Are there ISO AW 220 oils that are NOT machine oil?

Yes. Specific hydraulic oils, turbine oils, etc.

Grizz wrote:

“or perhaps this pdf is more complete….do you see what you are looking for anywhere in here?”

Yep, all over the place. I remember that article, used to subscribe to that mag.

Are there ISO AW 220 oils that are NOT machine oil?

Yes. Specific hydraulic oils, turbine oils, etc.

I guess that's where I get lost. I see a whole lot of numbers and letters and that's about it.  Is there a secret decoder ring that tells me this is a machine oil vs hydraulic oil vs turbine oil…etc.?

(and please pardon the complete thread hijack but I thought this might be relevant discussion for more than just me)

I think I'm making it way more complicated than it needs to be while trying to remain brand-neutral so I'll try another approach:

Select any brand of ISO AW 220 hydraulic oil (I know) that has an AGMA rating (Bingo!). That will do it. You will get the correct additives with the correct base stock. All you have to do is call your local petroleum distributor. You won't find this on the shelf in any auto parts stores, but they should be able to order it for you.

You can make a career out of lubrication engineering, many people do.

(I wouldn't worry about hijacking too much unless someone complains. :))

@ Plan B:

Glad Keno came through for you. If I recall correctly there should be about three gallons of oil in/for the clutch housing and about five gallons in/for the reservoir.

@Grizz:

Some more light reading, including the advantages of synthetic oils.

AGMA oil rating.

That was a good read Bob

Glad you liked it. A little education can save a lot of time time & money, which is another reason why I'm such a big fan of using oil analysis as a diagnostic tool.

A good friends dad ran the mechanic shop for Biggie Drayage out of Oakland and swore by using oil analysis monthly on every piece of equipment.

 On a side note when the pipes going through the Tehachapi mountains bringing water to southern California were being installed the tunnels were bored too small. Bill Kirkwood (the dad) engineered a piece of equipment that would raise it's front or rear legs, crawl inside the pipes and run them into the holes and butt them together, saving a ton of money that would have been spent enlarging the holes. I spent countless nights over whiskey and water soaking up knowledge from this man.

Plan B wrote:

“the people at Keno said it would be fine to use tractor fluid so i did.”

Great, no longer my responsibility, but the liability ball with your customer is in your court now. Not sure where Eric gets his info but it's not based on empirical scientific knowledge, otherwise we would be on the same page.

Sorry to hear about your leg, hope it heals well and soon. 🙂

Speaking of the “color and weight of the oil looked the same”, here is a debunking video I made awhile back using a viscosity comparator.