tractor will not start 304 w ty 395I engine

Why did you replace the fuel injection pump?

Did you lock the compression release open when you tried to rotate the engine?  With the rocker arms removed all the valves will be closed and you're working against a lot of compression – maybe more than just that if you have somehow hydro-locked a cylinder.  If you have no glow plugs the holes for them must be blocked with bolts?  Can you remove those?  You're gong to have to remove either those or the injectors in order to rotate the engine and clear any fluid that may be in any of the cylinders or you could break something trying to turn it over with the starter.

As Bob asked, why did you replace the injector pump?  That may have a bearing on why it won't turn now.  We need a bit more information in order to provide guidance.

Hi Bob and Rich,

I used my tractor only a few times early last summer.  When I went to move her inside the garage last september she started righrt up, but I turn the tractor off after 1 minute, because I remember that I wanted to change the oil before storing her for the winter.    Change the oil and went to start her up, but it would not start.    I look at the fuel system and saw that I was getting fuel at the injector pump, but not at the injectors themself.  I think that the fuel gelled up in the fuel pump but I am not too sure.   So I replaced the fuel pump this May and she was not starting.  I open the engine up and was trying to set the clearances for the valves, but could no turn the engine.

Rich, I have to remove the injectors to get access to the bolts that your talking about.  I have two 1/4″ threaded shafts on either side of each injector with nuts.  after removeing the nuts do the injectors just pull out or are they screw in place? 

also do I have to ajust the fuel injector pump in any way after I installed this new one?

Any help would be greatly appriciated.

ed

Oh yes indeed you have to adjust the injector pump after installing a new one!  If you don't get the new pump in exactly the same timing as the old one, you have to time it to the cylinder/valve sequencing.  This is done by spill timing with the injector lines disconnected at the #1 injector.  It isn't rocket science, bu tit has to be done just right for the engine to run properly. 

How come you don't have glow plugs?  Do you have an intake heater instead? What about a compression release?  That's the usual way to relieve compression so you can roll the engine over.

The engine should turn over with a wrench on the crank pulley nut unless one or more of the cylinders has fluid in it that is keeping it from going to/over TDC – fluid isn't compressible like air is.  The injectors just pull out, though they're usually stuck in place by carbon deposits.  Sometimes after you loosen the hold-downs turning the engine over will pop them out with the compression. 

Do you have the manuals for your tractor?  If not, the first thing you should do is to order the full set form one of the dealer who advertise here.  These are simple tractors but you still shouldn't be tearing into them without the manuals.

Did you replace the whole injection pump/governor assembly or just the lift pump?

If you had changed the fuel filter, the fuel injection pump still needed to be bled of air.

If you suspect the fuel had “jelled”, what made you suspect this? Did you witness any sludge anywhere in the fuel system?

Do as Rich suggests, get some manuals.

Tractor never had glow plugs or heater.  I don't know why?  she always started fine for me.  I have a handle on the right hand side which I use to start the engine which I call the compression release handle. i would hold this handle for a few second while turning the key and then when I release it the engine would start.

 I did no see sludge anywhere but I thought something effected the fuel injector pump. Before I replaced the complete pump/governor assembly I was not getting fuel at the injectors.   I purged the air out of the lines.   Now that I have the new pump/governor I am getting fuel at the injectors.  But tractor will not start.

I will look around for older post for spill timing.

I do have all the manuals for the tractor.

Your telling me if the compression release is held I should be able to rotate the engine.  I will try this and if this doesn't work I will try to remove the injectors.  

Thank you for the advice.  Ed

Here is a link to a post on instaling an injector pump. It helped me to re-time mine.

http://johnstractor.homestead……stall.html

I loosened the bolts on the fuel injectors and now I can rotate the engine.  thank you thank you thank you.

I adjusted the valve clearances with no problem. 

Now for the injector pump and spill timing.  I see fuel coming out of the number one valve and the angle from TDC is off by 50 degree's.   the book says it should be around 20 degrees.   I loosened the three nuts and rotated the injector pump both ways and still I get about 50 degrees difference in both direction.  I don't see a difference rotating the injector pump.

any suggestion to get it closer to 20 degrees?

or what am i doing wrong?

ed

one more thing.  the fuel injector pump timing on the tractor right now has the fuel being delevered after the intake opens and when the valve starts to close

ed

You need to get the engine back to TDC and start from there before you bend some push rods or cause other damage, Injector pumps have to be timed,you do not know where that pump is at when you take it out of the box.When you loosen the 3- bolts on the pump you will only be able to adjust 3-4 degrees either way, you will have to pull the gear off the pump,to get the pump set at number 1

Tommy

Affordable Tractor Sales

“Your Jinma Parts Superstore”

http://www.affordabletractorsalesco.com

If I have the engine at TDC, what position should the gear for the Injector pump be at?

ed

You're just going to have to try it at different positions to find which one gets you to where you can get the timing right by then turning the whole pump.  Once you find the sweet spot you might want to mark the gears with a punch in case you have to take it off in the future.

I remember this from awhile back. Make sure #1 cyl. is at TDC and check all of your gear markings. The flywheel should also show TDC.

The engine and injector pump must be timed together so that at (16 degree BTC or whatever degree it calls for your engine) the injector pump is ready to spray fuel into the number 1 cylinder.you can test this by spinning the engine over with a socket that when the crankshaft reachs the BTC mark that fuel starts to come out of the # 1 port of the fuel injector pump.

You will prob, have to remove a injector to make sure number 1 is at TDC

Tommy

Affordable Tractor Sales

“Your Jinma Parts Superstore”

http://www.affordabletractorsalesco.com

Tommy,  why would you have to remove the injector to make sure number 1 is at TDC?

ed

How are you going to know when number one is up ? Think about it .How many times will the crankshaft turn 360 from cylinder 1-3 ?? Do you think that because the marks on the crankshaft pully are lined up you are on TDC # 1 ? Maybe, maybe not are you on a intake stroke ? exhaust stroke??

Tommy

Affordable Tractor Sales

“Your Jinma Parts Superstore”

http://www.affordabletractorsalesco.com

Tommy,  First, thanks for some of your other comments.  I think, if i haven't already you save me from major damage to the engine. 

Now, I would think when I pull the valve cover off I can see clearly how the 4-stroke engine is working  and exactly when #1 cyclinder is finnished and then turn the fly wheel 180 degree from there to find TDC.

I see that the gear for the fuel pump turns 1 time for everytime the flywheel turns 2 times.  So I changed the gearing on the fuel pump like you mention above, and have corrected the fuel timing problem.

Although I broke one of the fuel return banjo bolts on top of the injector, so I will have to wait a few more days to see if the engine will trun over for me.

Thanks again for your help and I will be ordering parts from you again in the future.      from ed

finally got the bango fittings,       but the tractor will not start.   i see little spirts of fuel at the injectors when i crank the engine.  does anyone have any suggestions.   should i flood the injectors with fuel to see if that would do it.  or clean the injectors or get new ones?  or maybe this isn't even the problem.   i have no clue anymore and its @#$% monday and i have no tractor…   🙂  

There were two people recently who installed new pumps with a valve under a banjo bolt installed in the rear instead of the front from the factory causing the tractor to no start. I'll see if I can find the threads (from the last month or so) or maybe someone will chime in that knows what the hell I'm talking about.

Indeed, I recall a post or two about the bolts in the fuel banjo fittings – one of them is actually a pressure check valve and if installed in the other banjo the tractor will not start.  The one with the check valve (Rooks knows the proper name which I can't recall), looks slightly different – has a double head or some such.  The purpose of the valve is to prevent fuel from flowing back from the injectors or some such, I seem to recall – without it functioning properly insufficient fuel is delivered to the cylinders and the tractor will not start or will start after priming but not run for more than a few seconds.  Easy enough to switch the two banjo bolts to check it out – if both bolts are identical then the one with the valve may have been substituted by a plain one and needs to be replaced with the proper bolt.

Ok, this is how it works. That upper portion of the fuel injection pump that has the banjo bolts is an open chamber, or cavity, which is flooded with fuel under pressure (~10-20+ psig) created by the back pressure of the Pressure Regulating Valve (PRV) (all diesel engines have some such valve). There must be pressure for the engine to operate efficiently, if at all. It doesn't really matter if the PRV is at the front, side, or rear of the fuel injection pump so long as it is associated WITH the RETURN LINE and NOT the inlet line from the fuel filter. The return line may take a circuitous route through the injector leak-off lines, but ultimately goes back to the tank. I try to keep it simple.

I had corrected the situation where the location of the valve under the banjo was located.  With it in the wrong location I was getting no fuel to the injector pump at all.  But this is corrected now.  

At the present time with the fuel lines disconnected at the injectors I get little spurts of fuel at the injectors lines when I crank the engine.  So I am getting  fuel as far up to the injectors  With the fuel lines connect to the injector the engine will not start.   So, I am thinking maybe its the injectors themselves.

What else might it be?   Can I flood the injector with fuel and try to start the engine without damaging anything?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think you should get more than little spurts

hoops-02 wrote:

“What else might it be?”

Timing.

hoops-02 wrote #2:

Can I flood the injector with fuel…

No.

 …and try to start the engine without damaging anything?

Yes, but be aware that unburned fuel washes away the lube oil from the cylinder liner walls, accelerating piston, ring, and liner wear.

does any one know of a mechanic in the New York tri state area that works on Jimna tractors?

Any tractor repair shop or tractor dealer worth it's salt shouldn't have a problem with it, unless of course they are too busy working on their name brand machines that are broken down.

You don't necessarily need a tractor mechanic – a diesel is a diesel, as far as the fuel system is concerned.  A guy who works on old diesel Mercedes could do it, so could a guy who services diesel generators or boat engines.  Bob Rooks could do it if you lived next door to him…  I could do it if I knew what I was doing.

My best guess is that your timing is off.  You might want to go back and verify the pump timing, making sure that the #1cylinder is the correct number of degrees before top dead center when the #1 injector line spills.  Also make sure that you don't have the actuator for the compression release flipped – that will cause you to have no compression and thus no start.  Verify all the little things and if they're absolutely correct it should start.  You could take the injectors to a diesel shop and have them checked pretty easily if you have any concerns that they might be fouled and not popping or not delivering a proper mist pattern.

Diesels are fundamentally simple – if it gets proper fuel/air mix at the right time and has compression it will start and run – it just can't help itself. 

I am having the same problem.

I would like to know when to set the timing on my TY395FI pump. Unlike the instantaneous spark in a gasoline engine, the fuel is delivered over a quarter turn of the crankshaft (and a 45° turn of the FI pump shaft). My manual says it should be set to20° BTDC but is that for the beginning of the squirt or when the full amount is delivered from the FI plunger? Or somewhere else?

David

Hi David, welcome.

What is wrong with your engine that you feel you need to do this?

i'm trying to reply but this website won't let me.

To Bob Rooks;

FI pump ran out of oil, burned up. I replaced it. Tractor started easily and seemed to run OK but didn't have as much power as before. I suspect timing.