Forum › Forums › Tractor Troubleshooting › Foton 404 3pt. problems
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December 8, 2013 at 3:02 am #30839
I bought a 2006 Foton 404 with a Spirit loader and a box blade. The previous owner raised the box blade and put the tractor on my trailer. I got home and the 3 pt. wouldn't raise and hasn't since. The loader works fine so the pump must be ok. I checked the valve under the seat and it was all the way clockwise so I turned it counterclockwise about a turn. This didn't make a difference so I checked the fluid level (with the dipstick no screwed down) and it was about 3/4 between the lines. I have 2 levers, raise and lower, position and draft. I tried these in all different positions. Any body got any ideas!!! I probably will drain and replace the hydraulic fluid. Is there any particular type that works the best and where is the drain? Larry.
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December 8, 2013 at 9:34 am #36572
Make sure both levers are up, the draft and the lift.Not sure what could of happened, we use AW032 wt. hydraulic oil in these tractors
Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
“Your Jinma Parts Superstore”
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December 8, 2013 at 12:42 pm #36573
Tommy I have a 5gal. jug of Extreme pure flo hydraulic and transmission fluid that meet JD specs. Would this be acceptable? It doesn't say the weight of the fluid. It says it's acceptable in JD, Case, Ford Newholland, IH, MF, White, and Catapillar. I figure I'll drain an replace fluid and see what it does. Larry.
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December 8, 2013 at 6:38 pm #36574
Why not call the previous owner and chat with him, maybe see if you've missed something. Is it cold there? I know with my Jinma, when it's cold, it will take a while before my 3 point wants to lift much. I use Aw32 and it still is very sluggish till things get warmed up. Turning that knob one turn may not have been enough. Should be able top turn it several turns with no trouble. Chances are it's something pretty simple.
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December 8, 2013 at 6:47 pm #36575
Universal Hydraulic fluid is AW046 wt. oil, its just a little thicker oil but will work, I like the thinner hydraulic oil is starts moving faster
Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
“Your Jinma Parts Superstore”
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December 8, 2013 at 8:52 pm #36576
I bought the universal for my Ford Jubilee but it doesn't leak and haven't had to add, just thought I'd be able to get rid of it. Sounds like I'd be better of getting some 32 wt. I'll also try turning the valve under the seat more. Spent today replacing rubber lines. I found some cracked ones and some fittings that were leaking. Also the cover over the fuse box is missing, which I assume would have the fuse diagram. I checked the manual and it doesn't have it, so does any one know which slots and fuses are for what? Larry.
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December 9, 2013 at 6:36 am #36577
The previous owner was selling everything he had and moved away. I tried to get a hold of him but he's gone. I figured I couldn't get hurt to bad the hr. meter reads 53hr. and I only gave $3600.00 for it. Larry.
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December 9, 2013 at 4:13 pm #36578
When you were turning the valve in front of the seat, did you first loosen the set screw in the side of it? If not, you may have just stripped the knob on the shaft and not turned the valve shaft at all. That set screw has screwed a number of people… Frequently the shaft gets a bit of rust and is difficult to turn even with the set screw loosened, so you might want to check to make sure it really did turn and then try turning it out two or three full turns. The valve's purpose is to regulate the flow rate through the cylinder to sump, to control the rate of drop of the TPH arms with different weight implements on the arms, or when it is fully closed to divert flow to the single remote line to power a single-acting cylinder on a dump trailer. In that case the trailer drops by gravity alone and pushes the fluid back to the sump.
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December 9, 2013 at 6:54 pm #36579
Thank you! I didn't know there's a set screw. I'll check it tuesday. Thats probably why I had to use a wrench to get it to turn. I guess it's a case of the nut behind the wrench. I appreciate the info. Larry.
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December 9, 2013 at 7:52 pm #36580
Larry,
Here are a couple of pictures that may help on your fuse box. First is a picture from my Jinma 284 and the 2nd is a drawing that I made so I would understand the wiring.
RonJ
ronjin
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December 11, 2013 at 1:41 am #36583
I checked the knob under the seat and there wasn't a set screw. I turned the knob counterclockwise 3 more turns and it didn't make a difference. The manual shows a drain plug on the lower left, but mine doesn't have one. Do I pull the line on the lower right to drain it. It's looking more and more like I need to tear down and check O rings. Thank You Ron for the picture and Diagram, but mine is totally different. I have five fuses on the left side and 7 fuses down the middle with 3 relays on the right side. There is a slot at the top right for a relay that is blank. I don't know if there is suppose to be one there or not. My instrument cluster and lights are not working. I checked all the fuses and they are ok. I figure I'll take the multi-meter up there and start checking for power at the pin blocks. This may sound like a stupid question but how do I tell which motor I have. The manual says there is 3 different manufacturers. I have a 4 cylinder motor. Larry.
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December 11, 2013 at 6:40 am #36584
Most FT404 tractors came with the SL3105 Engine, you must have the 490BT engine,I have a lot of Foton parts in stock including a 3- point rebuild kit if you need it
Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
“Your Jinma Parts Superstore”
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December 11, 2013 at 11:24 am #36585
Thanks Tommy. I'll be calling you.
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December 13, 2013 at 12:34 pm #36592
Tommy, Is there a filter or anything that affects the 3pt. and not the loader? Also can I pull the line off going to 3pt to makesure I have flow? I don’t see a drain plug like the parts manual shows. I went to your web site and looked at the rebuild kit (price is a lot cheaper than I thought it would be). Is there a shop manual for this tractor? I got one for my Ford and it sure makes repairs a lot easier. I’m going thru things to see if there is anything else I need, try and get it all in one shot. I finally got the electrical working. I got contact cleaner and took all conectors apart and sprayed them. Everything came on! Larry.
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December 16, 2013 at 6:33 am #36599
The rear hydraulic pump is for the loader and the 3- point, if the loader is working the pump is good, there is a return filter but again if the loader is working fluid is returning, most likely the O-ring in the piston.o service manuals on any of the Chinese tractors
Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
“Your Jinma Parts Superstore”
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December 16, 2013 at 3:38 pm #36600
What Tommy said – the previous owner may have over-extended the TPH piston, screwing the O-rings on it. They're cheap, anyhow. There is no such thing as a factory service manual for these tractors. You order the parts from Tommy and then call him and ask him how to do it – easy!
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December 17, 2013 at 5:21 pm #36602
Thanks Tommy and Rich. I called Thomas and ordered everything I figured I needed, the 3pt. rebuild kit, starter selnoid, and all filters (as long as it sat I figured it would be for the best). Thomas told me some really important info I needed to know. Tommy you were right I've got a 490BT motor. The kids are coming in this weekend for the holidays. Between getting ready, the event, and aftermath probably be a week or so before I'll get to do it. Thanks and have a good holiday. Larry.
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December 28, 2013 at 6:20 pm #36629
Well I got the rebuild kit. First go around I tried replacing the O ring and wiper on the main cylinder and got nothing. Next I removed the carb plate and main block. I removed what I could and cleaned, sprayed with WD, and blew out with air, still nothing. The parts book is different than what I have. I’m at a loss!!!! Larry
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December 29, 2013 at 8:17 am #36630
Larry, you are just going to have to go 1- step at a time, first check to make sure you have Hydraulic pressure to the Hydraulic lift box from the hydraulic pump , loosen the line coming from the pump.If yes move on to the lift valve, that's what is providing the pressure to the Hydraulic cylinder,there is also a pressure relief valve inside the lift box that may be stuck no allowing the pressure to go to the piston.You can also loosen the return line leaving the Hydraulic box, see if you have a flow going thru the box, if yes you only have a few other things it could be. The piston leaking by ( You already replaced that), the Lift valve, the distributor valve in the lift box, or a stuck pressure relief valve.Start at the beginning.Sorry I could not help you yesterday on the phone, We are working on another building and had to move some electrical for the concrete guys
Don't give up it will turn out to be something pretty simple.Most of the time it ends up being gunk in the system that has stopped something up
Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
“Your Jinma Parts Superstore””
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December 29, 2013 at 1:39 pm #36631
Ok but my block and plate is totally different than the book. The one-way valve between the two is opposite from the book. T book shows cup, spring and mine is spring and cup. I tried to put it like the book shows but the spring will go up inside the housing that way and won't even touch the cup. My main block is different than the book. The book shows on the return side parts removed from both sides but mine has no opening on one side. This is the part right above the lift valve and I couldn't get it to move. How do I get it out? Threw the side I could open and close the spring loaded valve in there so I shot with WD and blew it out with air. Larry.
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December 29, 2013 at 7:52 pm #36633
Tommy,
I pulled the line off going in to the 3pt box and pull the gas cut off and motor the engine over and nothing came out. I went to the multi valve and pulled the line and motored over and got nothing. I went to the block at the bucket control and pulled the out going which go's to the multi-valve and motored the engine over and I got nothing. There's a valve there so I pulled it and the inside mechanisms won't move, but it doesn't look like this valve comes apart. I blew it out and re-inserted it, motored it over and nothing. My question is will motoring the engine over without actually starting it be enough to show me anything? Larry.
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December 29, 2013 at 8:15 pm #36634
I would think that turning the motor over would show some signs of pressure, but you can start it for a brief min, if you are getting pressure there you will know it in a few seconds , just be ready to pull the stop cable.Worst case you will loose a little hydraulic fluid
Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
“Your Jinma Parts Superstore”
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December 30, 2013 at 1:35 pm #36637
It looks like I'm not getting anything past the pressure valve at the loader block. The line comes off the pump to the loader block and by pressure to multi-valve to 3pt. That valve is froze up, which is a part from the loader company(I think). Lesson learned – start at the beginning and work back. I made something simple alot of work. I'll let you know if I get it freed up or replaced and if it works. I guess it wasn't all for nothing I gained knowledge on the 3pt. box and how the system is routed and works. Larry.
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December 30, 2013 at 3:11 pm #36638
Larry, send me a pic of that valve, I will see if I can help you with it
tommy@affordabletractorsalesco.com
Tommy
Affordable Tractor SAles
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January 1, 2014 at 2:01 pm #36644
Tommy;
I went online and can't find this pressure beyond valve. I've had this one soaking in PB Blaster and it's not freeing up. There's a cross sticker on the back of the block (you were right – it's made by cross). I'll start checking with local hydraulic shops and see what I can come up with. Larry.
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January 2, 2014 at 11:08 pm #36645
So far I can't find anyone who can get the valve. John at Spirit says he has two 2600 series but the other number is different. I've got an E06 and he has an A06, so he has to see if there is a difference. The local shops haven't been able to come up with it and I couldn't find it on-line. I soaked it for two days and blew it out, it's still stuck. Not looking good. Larry.
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January 3, 2014 at 12:36 am #36646
Larry,
This is a post that I grabbed from another tractor site some time ago. I have used it for bolts and it worked for me. I offer it as a possibility for soaking the valve. Let me know if it works for soaking if you decide to try it.
RonJ
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Anyway, I have just changed all 48 flails on my flail mower in the space of about 1 hour, a job that last time took closer to 3, using WD40. I mixed the acetone and ATF 50/50, mixed it into a mayo type liquid and painted it on to the bolts with an old paint brush, few hours to let it sink in and the bolts come off no problem
It really does work and is a great home brew farm fix to an old problem. Give it a go – hopefully you can get Acetone, it's sold in supermarkets here in France
Penetrating oil ….. Average load
None ………………… 516 pounds
WD-40 ……………… 238 pounds
PB Blaster …………..214 pounds
Liquid Wrench …… 127 pounds
Kano Kroil ………… 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix… 53 pounds
The ATF-Acetone mix was a “home brew” mix of 50 – 50 automatic
transmission fluid and acetone.
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As discussed in a previous thread on the ATF/Acetone solvent…the biggest problem is containing it..you really need a sealed metal can or glass jar…I use a pump type oil can and fill it from a jar as the acetone evaporates from the oiler…ronjin
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January 3, 2014 at 6:00 am #36647
Larry, go to the source:
Cross valves have been around for years and still are today.Contact Cross, tell them you are looking for some help and I will assure you they will help you or get you in contact with someone
CROSS HYDRAULICS CONTACT PAGE
DistributorsFor a recommended distributor in your area, please call us at 620-324-5525 or e-mail us at info@crossmfg.com This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. . We want to give you our best customer service!
Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
“Your Jinma Parts Superstore”
http://www.affordabletractorsalesco.com
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January 5, 2014 at 2:09 am #36648
I had a local hydraulic shop send the pic of the valve to cross and they matched it up. They will get it ordered Monday, takes 7 to 10 days. The number off the block came up with something totally different so I sent the pic. Tommy you saw the pic of the valve. Could my lines be hook up wrong? The flow goes in the bottom and out the top. I don't see how the valve works that way. Would it do any damage if I tried to swap them? Larry.
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January 5, 2014 at 7:52 am #36649
It has been working so the lines are OK I'm pretty sure, the problem started after you or the previous owner loaded the tractor.I think that valve stuck.I have seen several Cross valves, put never had to work on many.What did the hydraulic shop call the part ? Relief valve ? Power beyond ?
Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
“Your Jinma Parts Superstore”
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January 5, 2014 at 10:27 pm #36650
They didn't, they just gave a part number (1R0132-04-260). I was planning on leaving it tore down until I got the part just in case the valve wasn't the only problem, but we got dumped on today. We got over a foot of extremely wet snow. I stuck my ford three times and gave up. It was so wet it wouldn't roll on the back blade, it would stick and pile-up and turn to ice under the wheels. The neighbor got his tractor out to pull me out and stuck it twice, we had a real mess. I went in the garage and put the Foton back together. I'll use the loader tomorrow to dig out. We're hitting 33 below zero tonight with 35 mile an hour wind. We haven't had this kind of weather in over twenty years. Larry.
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January 11, 2014 at 2:37 pm #36653
The new valve came in. I'm getting fluid past the block, but still no lift. I'm going to have to tear the 3pt back down. I couldn't get part of the distributor block apart. That has to be siezed up as well. I'll probably take it to a hydraulic shop,surely they'll have the tools to get it apart. Larry.
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