Forum › Forums › Bulldozer & Excavator Troubleshooting › clutch not working properly
- This topic has 37 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 7 months ago by Bob Rooks.
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May 15, 2014 at 7:34 pm #30892
Hi bob
I haven’t gotten out to my machine to see what year it is. But I will
My dozer does have an accumuator.
Also I’m very interested in trying a better choice of oil in my clutch to see if that helps it.
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May 15, 2014 at 8:13 pm #36951
Hi there
I picked up a used yct306s-6 dozer I have had the machine about five months. It had around 100 hours on it. I have put on about 20 hrs. Im having trouble with my shuttle clutch. Its not finding neutral and when in forward or reverse it lugs the engine almost to a stall. I have drained and changed all fluids motor, clutch, trans. I’m using hy-trans oil in the clutch.
Any thoughts?
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May 16, 2014 at 4:28 pm #36954
I'm away from my 'puter right now so I don't have access to the specific oil info, but it was a AGMA rated 20w machine oil. I'll get specifics when I get back.
You will have to tap into the clutch hydraulic system to see what pressure you're getting. It should be between 30# and 50#. This pressure overcomes the spring engaging pressure of the planetary drive servos (there are two, one forward – one reverse). There is also a possibility that the accumulator has lost it's charge for some reason.
It sounds like one or both of your servos is not releasing the spring pressure. These work very similar to the steering clutches.
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May 16, 2014 at 4:32 pm #36955
Do you have the parts and owners manuals? If not I can send them to you.
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May 16, 2014 at 5:37 pm #36956
Hi there
yes on the manual and I also have a parts catalog.I will also see if i can put some gages in line and see what pressure i have.
Ill do some home work on oil in the meantime. To see what’s available in my area.
Thanks
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May 18, 2014 at 3:23 pm #36957
The specific oil for optimum performance is ISO AW 150 machine oil.
This is available in almost all popular oil brands.
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May 18, 2014 at 4:38 pm #36958
Thanks I will try that type of oil.
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May 18, 2014 at 4:49 pm #36959
I forgot to ask if you had checked and cleaned the suction strainer in the bottom of the case.
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May 18, 2014 at 5:56 pm #36960
Yep I pulled it out when I drained original oil and put in the hy- trans. I was hoping that it was plugged but it was clean. I have my fingers crossed that it will help with a better weight of oil. As well with pressure gauges to see what my pump and clutch are doing. This web site is a great tool.
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May 18, 2014 at 9:16 pm #36961
Shop tip if you didn't already know: It's easy to tap into a hydraulic system anywhere there is a banjo bolt used. Simply drill and tap for 1/8″ NPT in the center of the hex head. Install a high pressure needle valve and a 3,000 PSI gauge. When you are done testing, install a 1/8″ NPT steel pipe plug.
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May 19, 2014 at 7:04 pm #36962
Thanks for the shop tip. Also I’m having trouble finding an oil that has the same ratings as you said above. I can get some types of rotella do you know what would be a similar match in that brand?
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May 19, 2014 at 9:36 pm #36963
I'll check and get back to you asap.
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May 19, 2014 at 9:55 pm #36964
Closest match to spec is Shell Tellus 32 (preferred) or Tellus 25. Rotella is engine oil – not recommended in this application, I don't care what the dealers say.
Note: You won't need a 5,000 PSI gauge to test the clutch hydraulic system, a 200 PSI gauge will do.
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May 28, 2014 at 5:57 pm #36975
As best I can tell my dozer is 2002. But the engine tag says its 2005 us space approved.
I removed the hy trans fluid I had in the clutch system. And replaced it with shell rotella hd 30 weight hydro-trans fluid. It was the closest to your thoughts for clutch fluid.
I ran dozer for 20 minutes in low, first gear and pushed dirt. It did improve it performance but still has has trouble finding neutral as well as engine bogging in both forward and reverse. But it does it less often than before.
Also my clutch case after running as said above was 180-200 degrees. Is that a normal temp?
I could not install a pressure gauge as of yet. Due to (wrong fittings) plumbing always seams to take a few try’s.
Side note the out side of my clutch case after running as said above was 180-200 degrees. Would that be normal?
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May 28, 2014 at 6:15 pm #36976
My manual calls for 7.5 gal of fluid for clutch system. But the case can’t hold that much fluid. Only about 6 gal. Also the dip stick looks as if it had been broken and Welded together. My concern is if the fluid level is correct. With the fluid filled to read right on the dip stick and top of case off. I can see about 75% of the clutch pack. Does that sound right?
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May 28, 2014 at 6:17 pm #36977
Correction for above. 2005 us epa approved. Not space approved. Ha ha.
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May 29, 2014 at 10:58 am #36979
There is a reason for the specific oil recommendation. Why can't your supplier get Tellus 32? Where are you purchasing the oil?
As I asked before, does your left saddlebag reservoir have a sight glass? This is where oil is stored for the shuttle clutch. This reservoir holds about seven gallons.
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May 29, 2014 at 11:13 am #36981
A picture of your left saddlebag (battery) compartment would be helpful.
180° to 200° is at the maximum upper limit. Should be around 160° to 170°.
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May 29, 2014 at 6:39 pm #36986
The oil I got was from tractor supply co.
My dozer isn’t plumbed to use the drivers side saddle tank. Only the passenger side tank is set up for the blade hydraulics.
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May 29, 2014 at 11:27 pm #36987
Then how is your accumulator plumbed? Do you have a reservoir on the left side? That's one of the reason your oil temp is so high, the oil doesn't spend enough time in residence to settle out, cool, and deareate.
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May 30, 2014 at 5:53 am #36989
Oh ok. Now that is making sense. The accumulator is plumbed in right of the rotary valve. The feed line from the pump comes up to the rotary valve and enters a tee and the accumulator is tied in there. I thought that was weird. Why have a tank and its not being used. Maybe the previous owner actually assembled the dozer? Could you post a pic of you battery compartment? Also I can’t seem to post pictures myself. Im using this site via my smart phone and it doesn’t seem to load pictures.
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May 30, 2014 at 9:17 am #36990
You have to shrink pictures to around 350MB then click the tree icon and navigate from there. If you get that far me or someone else can walk you through from there
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May 30, 2014 at 9:19 am #36991
Thanks tin bender I will give it a try.
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May 30, 2014 at 3:54 pm #36992
I have a plumbing schematic I will post when I get home.
Do you have an outlet at the rear inside at the bottom of the unused reservoir?
This is what your left saddlebag should look like. Somewhat.
?
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May 30, 2014 at 4:04 pm #36993
Yep there are some outlets in the tank next to the battery. I think there are three.
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May 30, 2014 at 4:13 pm #36995
How about a big one on the seat side? Should look like the same one in the right saddlebag for the tractor hydraulics.
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May 30, 2014 at 4:27 pm #36996
Yep it does have a big outlet.
also the picture you posted looks close to mine. Except that my neutral line goes straight down to the clutch case. Also I dont have a filter and gauge.
what does the small cylinder on the side of the rotary valve do? And how should It be adjusted? -
May 30, 2014 at 8:26 pm #36998
Ok I put down my phone and got on my computer and there’s a lot more buttons and icons when using the computer. Ill be out at my dozer tomorrow for pictures to post. Thanks guys for your help so far.
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May 31, 2014 at 3:12 am #37001
Your plumbing system should look like this:
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June 2, 2014 at 7:31 pm #37012
HI THERE. I added A FILTER AND PLUMBED LINES IN TO DRIVERS SIDE saddle TANK AND FILLED TANK WITH OIL UP TO THE RETURN LINE OPENING BUT ONCE I STARTED UP DOZER THE clutch PUMP WOULD PUT FLUID INTO THE TANK FASTER THAN IT would return TO THE clutch CASE. I PULLED THE 90 fitting WHERE THE return LINE enters THE CASE AND IT HAS A LOng STEM WHICH PLACE CLUTCH OIL DOWN LOW NEAR WHERE THE suction screen IS IN THE CASE. BUT it’s NOT enough suction TO PULL FLUID INTO CLUTCH CASE TO maintain A GOOD OIL LEVEL IN THE CASE. ANY suggestions?
WHAT SHOULD THE LEVEL OF FLUID IN clutch CASE BE, OR HOW COVERED SHOULD THE clutch PACKS BE?
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June 2, 2014 at 10:10 pm #37016
Did you make sure the reservoir was meticulously clean before you added any oil?
Do you still have the tee'd line going to the accumulator from the pump discharge?
At this point where is the oil level on the dipstick?
Do you have provisions for a sight gauge on the reservoir? It would be a steel boss with two 17mm bolts about 3″ apart.
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February 19, 2015 at 5:25 pm #37505
Hi guys–I'd just like to jump in here and say that I have all the exact same issues with my yct 306s crawler.I recently changed all the oil with the recommended grades—shell rimula 40wt for transfer case, 10wt hydraulic, 30 wt engine. But there are 2 fill holes on floorboard–front one for clutch case, rear one for transfer case, and only the right side hydraulic tank is in use. It will run and shift normally for about 5 mins, and then will abruptly stop with NO neutral to be found. I can wait 10 mins, start up and it will be okay briefly. I am about ready to suck it up and pay someone to get it fixed, but can't find anyone willing to work on these Chinese machines. Does anyone know of mechanic in the Medford, Or. area who will?? thanks, Jeff
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February 19, 2015 at 6:38 pm #37506
Hi jeff, thats what my dozer would do exactly. I even called in a pro who popped open the top of the case and tried to wiggle the clutch disks and they didnt move and said it needs to be replaced, that cost me $500.00 ouch…..well i got the nerve up to spilt my dozer late last fall. Once i removed the shuttle clutch pack from the case i opened the clutch and found that the cylinders where the pistons are that press against the clutch disks was full of crud, the sludge was a mix of dust,dirt, and metal from the clutch disks them self. I fully cleaned the clutch unit but have yet to order the new clutch disks which were burnt and warped. I found clutch parts at farm boys in Tennessee, for around $600.00.
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February 20, 2015 at 3:27 am #37508
What is the “transfer case”? Do you mean the transmission and bevel gear compartment? If so, that's supposed to have 80W-90 gear oil in it, and 85W-140 gear oil in the final drives (one each side). And I'll wager that neither of you gentlemen are running the correct oil in your shuttle clutches. On the bottom side of the shuttle clutch there is a bolted flange that contains a strainer. This strainer must be cleaned periodically.
Who uses 30W oil in these engines? What is the API rating of that 30W oil?
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February 23, 2015 at 4:16 pm #37521
Hi Bob–Jeff here………….On the floor board, there are 2 fill holes; the one in front of shifter is labeled clutch case, and the rear one, gearbox. Not to be confused with final drive-one on each side. Under oil recommendation, it says-engine sump=30w high ash rimula, transfer case/transmission box=40w high ash rimula, hydraulic sump=iso 32//sae10…………nothing about shuttle clutch. AND, my left tank is not being used! In that compartment–battery side- there is a cylinder(accumulater??) with one line going to it from rotator valve. when I removed it, a small amount of dirty oil came out(all the oil sumps are full of see-thru clean oil) What is the function of this spring loaded cylinder? I'm fairly certain the importer I purchased from had never set up a crawler before, and he is no longer in biz. Will I have to drain oil to check/clean strainer? As a licensed denturist, I spend more time grinding on teeth than gears. I can handle the mechanical part, I'm just a little short on the functional knowledge of this beast. I have the feeling I'm gonna get to know it better in time……and thanks for your time and patience………. , Jeff, Gold Hill, Oregon………
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February 24, 2015 at 1:10 pm #37522
Hi Jeff,
Yes, I'm familiar with the OEM lubricant recommendations, however there is a lot lost in the translations. The shuttle clutch should be using ISO AW 220 machine oil. This oil is recommended for geared friction drives and has an AGMA grade rating of 5. Any brand can be used as long as it meets those specs. In my opinion this is the best selection for this type of drive that uses planetary gearing and friction clutches. You can also use Caterpillar TO-4 if you have a lot of disposable income. There have been other owners that say shuttle clutch performance was greatly improved after switching. The clutch also runs cooler.
Yes, that is a hydraulic accumulator in the left saddlebag. That acts as a cushion and also stores pressure (about 40 psig). The clutch packs are engaged by spring force (kind of counterintuitive) and disengaged by servos using hydraulic pressure. The clutch oil must be drained in order to clean the strainer. This system should be impeccably clean.
What they are calling the “transfer case” is actually the bevel gear case which has a common sump with the transmission. This is a high gear tooth loading arrangement and requires an EP lubricant, hence the 85W-90 gear oil.
Did you know there is a dealer for these dozers in Oregon? KENO Tractor in Keno, OR.
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March 15, 2015 at 1:48 am #37536
Hi Bob and thanks for your time– Are you familiar with Shells top of the line transmission oil SPIRAX GL-4? and could it be used in trans case or clutch tank.? I think you recommended aw 220 machine for the clutch, and 85-90 w for the transfer case(not the final drive). And should I plumb the empty tank, lft side for the shuttle clutch oil?? research shows quite a variety of the 220 oil(sewing machine)–around $70-100 per 5 gals…….I think this is enough for me to take on for now!! thanks, Jeff
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March 15, 2015 at 11:01 am #37538
The Spirax S3-G is a good oil for the transmission and “transfer case” in the appropriate weight. Don't even think of using it for the clutch – way too heavy.
Not sure where you get “sewing machine” oil, but here is a guide you can use to find substitute oil. And yes, that price is about right. Please bear in mind that I'm making recommendations based on my education as an engineer and many years of experience in the field, but you are under no obligation to follow them.
http://www.duboischemicals.com…..0Guide.pdf
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