New Prince PTO pump vs. new gearbox

Forum Forums Tractor Modifications New Prince PTO pump vs. new gearbox

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    • #31021
      Len10
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        Just an FYI: digging out 15-20 large stumps with a backhoe that doesn’t have any oil in the PTO pump gearbox is not a smart thing to do.  Needless to say, I need to replace the gearbox. After reading so many positive thing about Prince PTO pumps, I thought for about $125.00 more I’d switch to a Prince pump instead of replacing the gearbox. I’ve read several great posts on this site about the subject. I want to make sure I have all the facts.


        I have a Luzhong TC254 and an LW-6 backhoe. I was thinking of getting a Prince HC-PTO-7A PTO Pump.  I assume this would fit the shaft of my PTO. The shaft turns clockwise.

         

        I would put a filter on the suction side and a pressure relief valve on the output side.  My big concern is finding the right fittings or hoses to convert from metric fittings to the SAE fitting on the Price pump. I spoke to a hydraulic shop that said they could cut one end off each of the hoses I have and crimp on new SAE fittings or would I be better off trying to find adapter? The inner diameter of the fitting I have are 20mm.

         

      • #37716
        Tontosgold
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          Hi Len,

          The filter usually goes on the return line just before it enters the tank. That way it intercepts foreign matter floating around in the system and prevents recirculation and accumulation of this gunk in your tank. A fine mesh strainer should be fitted to your suction line which stops any foreign material before it can damage your pump. These are usually internally mounted and accessed for cleaning by removal of a coverplate at the base of the reservoir however they are available as an inline component as well.

          Something you might like to consider is forgetting the pto pump altogether and running your backhoe off the tractor hydraulics. I have done this mod to my dozer by tapping into the 3pt linkage feed and installing a selector valve which either lifts my linkage or directs flow to the hydraulic couplings. Works really well for my backhoe. In your situation it might even work out cheaper than replacing the gearbox. Can post some pics and skematics if you decide to go that way. 

          Good luck finding adaptors. Cut and crimp new fittings. When all else fails I get the shop to braze a standard hydraulic thread onto the chinese fitting. 

          Dozer YCT306S shuttle shift - root rake, tree-pusher, backhoe
          Excavator Hyundai 17 ton

          QLD, Australia

        • #37717
          DavidPrivett
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            did you figure out where the oil went?

          • #37718
            Len10
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              Thanks for the reply. I would consider using the tractor hydraulics. I wasn't sure if it had enough power for the backhoe. I do have these rear ports. I've never used them so I'm sure they could be used for a backhoe. I don't know if the valves could be locked in the open position while using the backhoe as the handles in the second picture spring back to the neutral position when released.

            • #37719
              Len10
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                David,

                I never put oil in the gearbox when I purchased the tractor. What a newbie!

              • #37724
                Bob Rooks
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                  Len, that is exactly how I plumbed my Prince pump. There is no need to install a relief valve because there is one built into the LW6 valve stack. I used it to power my LW6 also, but since that’s gone now I use it to power the laser grader.
                  Since you’re installing a suction side filter be sure to also install a vacuum gauge in the filter head so you can monitor the filter condition. They sell them at Surplus Center for around $10 with markings.

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                • #37725
                  Len10
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                    You have the filter on the suction line and not the return line?  Is the Prince HC-PTO-7A PTO Pump the right size for LW6?

                  • #37728
                    Bob Rooks
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                      Yes and yes. The suction side filter is equivalent to a 60 mesh screen. Get them at Surplus Center (best price). The Prince pump is more than adequate for the LW6. In fact you will find that you will have to run at reduced r/m.

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                    • #37729
                      Bob Rooks
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                        I run a high capacity suction filter, has 1″ NPT in & out. I bushed down to 3/4″ NPT.
                        Can’t show pic from phone.

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                      • #37730
                        Bob Rooks
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                          You can see the setup on my FB page.

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                        • #37731
                          Len10
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                            Thanks for the reply. Sorry about all these basic questions.

                            1) If I use a suction side filter do I still need a return line filter?

                            2) The Prince pump has SAE ports,  it “includes a 1″ hosebarb adapter for inlet port, and a 3/4″ NPT adapter for outlet port.” Does this mean an NPT fitting can screw into an SAE port or do these adapter create a female NPT fitting that a male NPT hose end connects to?

                            3) Should I spend a few extra dollars and use JIC hoses and adapt NPT ports to JIC (for example the suction filter has NPT ports). According to Surplus Center, JIC fittings and SAE O-ring fittings are better than NPT fittings since NPT fitting create a seal through distortion and are more prone to leaking (especially if the fittings are ever disconnected and then reconnected). They don't sell pre-made SAE hoses, but they do sell pre-made JIC hoses.

                          • #37732
                            Bob Rooks
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                              I can better reply when I get to my ‘puter tomorrow.

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                            • #37734
                              Bob Rooks
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                                1) A return line filter isn't really necessary with a suction filter, but it wouldn't hurt anything. I have a tendency to get anal and overdo things a bit but I like to know what's going on. Here is a pic of the return line filter I installed on my LW6. The pressure gauge measures filter restriction and there is an oil temp thermometer.

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                              • #37735
                                Bob Rooks
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                                  2) Both ports on the Prince pump are SAE O-ring, straight thread. You will need adapters if you are going to use tapered pipe. There are lots of different adapters available. In my case, I have quick disconnects on the suction and pressure sides mounted on schedule 80 90°elbows. This facilitated removing and reinstalling the pump. Sorry, no pic yet.

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                                • #37736
                                  Bob Rooks
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                                    3) On the return lines you can use anything you want as there is minimal to no pressure involved. The pressure side will require schedule 80 pipe, and JIC fittings.

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                                  • #37737
                                    Len10
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                                      Thanks for your help.  I think I have a plan now.hailking

                                    • #37742
                                      Tontosgold
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                                        So now I am curious to know the reasons why you guys prefer to run PTO pumps and bear the cost of maintaining two separate hydraulic systems, especially when your tractor already has hydraulic couplings plumbed so all you really need to do is buy mating couplings and possibly lengthen the feed and return hoses?

                                        Dozer YCT306S shuttle shift - root rake, tree-pusher, backhoe
                                        Excavator Hyundai 17 ton

                                        QLD, Australia

                                      • #37744
                                        Bob Rooks
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                                          Speaking for myself, my LW6 came as a self contained unit, which I think most do, with it's own reservoir and pump. After blowing several pump seals I decided to install the prince pump and use the dozer's left saddlebag reservoir. That system worked well but then I started blowing cup seals in the LW6. The LW6 rapidly fell out of favor with me so I sold it and bought a LiTW BH7600 (equivalent to a LW7 sizewize) and plumbed it identically. That system worked well for me too until I decided I needed more versatility and power, so I sold the LiTW and bought an excavator with a hydraulic thumb and dozer blade. It has four different buckets (with quick-change) and a root rake.

                                          Make sure the couplings on the rear of your tractor (and the tractor's hydraulic pump) have the capabilities and capacity for running a back hoe.

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                                        • #37745
                                          Bob Rooks
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                                            Suction filter restriction indicator (vacuum gauge). High pressure fittings are not required in this circuit. Schedule 40 pipe and fittings may be used.

                                             

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                                          • #37746
                                            Bob Rooks
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                                              You can see the Prince PTO pump buried underneath the quick hitches hydraulic top link. This is now set up to run the laser grader.

                                               

                                               

                                               

                                              This is an older pic with a test gauge, but it's still basically plumbed the  same way, with a few refinements.

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                                            • #37747
                                              Tontosgold
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                                                Just for information in case anyone out there reading this is not aware that their dozer also has a high speed PTO, it is located behind the rectangular cover plate directly above the low speed PTO shaft. The hydraulic pump off the LW-6 backhoe bolts straight on. Probably same arrangement on the tractors, can anyone confirm?

                                                Dozer YCT306S shuttle shift - root rake, tree-pusher, backhoe
                                                Excavator Hyundai 17 ton

                                                QLD, Australia

                                              • #37750
                                                Bob Rooks
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                                                  Yes. That PTO runs at engine speed. It is a tang drive.

                                                  The splined shaft below it turns at 540 or 720 (1,000 on some) r/m at 1,750 engine r/m. These speeds are requirements for certain implements.

                                                  Yes, this is the same configuration on most wheelies. wink

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                                                • #37783
                                                  Len10
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                                                    The output form the PTO pump goes to a Banjo fitting on the valve stack.  I was thinking about purchasing a fitting from AliExpress and then using a local hydraulic shop to make the hose I need.  The banjo bolt measures 21.5mm and the opening of the banjo measures 22.2mm.  I assume I would need a 22mm x 1.5mm banjo fitting.  Does anyone know if the fitting in the picture below would work?

                                                    70011-22-8 0Series 1/2 DIN7642 Carbon Steel M22*1.5 Over Cover Barb Metirc Banjo Hydraulic Fittings

                                                    http://www.aliexpress.com/item…..08169.html

                                                    I can't seen to get the link function to work

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