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Our neighborhood of 56 homes are on two community wells and we're the smallest water district in the US, or so I've heard. The state has decided we need backflow valves at every house just to the house side of the shutoff valves at the street. The watermaster (we all take turns every few years) is also a contractor and has installed a number of them with a small MF with a backhoe. After looking at a few in progress I decided I could do this with the 9″ post hole digger. Punch some holes and connect the dots, right?
I measured the depth of the shutoff valve and marked the auger with paint so I would be 6″ above the pipe. First hole fine. Second hole I took out the phone line and missed the water line by 1/4 inch
Unlike the 3 or 4 I had seen dug out mine came out of the valve box, came up 12″, turned 45 degrees, and was placed wrapped in fiberglass insulation in a styrofoam box wrapped in plastic and ran to the house with the phone cable joining it right where I dug. Needless to say I finished the 4x4x2+ foot deep hole carefully with a shovel. I'll have the watermaster get the backflow valve and box when he gets back from Cabo.
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The first pic was the plan of attack. The second shows where the auger just missed the PVC water pipe. The red lines drawn show where the power lines go from the pole six feet to the left, under the water line to the other side, then off to an angle down their own trench. Code today would not allow the power lines to cross the water pipe, it would need to be in conduit in it's own trench filled with rock free soil. At some points on the way to the house it's only four inches deep! Bert, there is no utility for the water, we as a neighborhood are it. There were no records kept of the whole system, we're outside city limits and there were no codes (at least none followed) when the the subdivision was built. This box containing the water line was a way of “cheating the frost line” so as not to have to trench at the proper depth. Most likley I'll have to carefully dig this whole area down another foot to the shutoff valve depth, run and install the backflow valve, then run it back up to the foam box depth to keep the backflow valve below the frost line. At least the phone line was not too big a chore to repair and is sealed with sealant coated submersible cable shrink tubing.
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Nah, it only take a bit over ten hours, Bob.
I had to do it once years ago when the local public works crews chopped a downed cable in half to get it out of their way for cleaning up debris after a hurricane. Where I was located, it would have been months before the 'phone company go to it, so I went out and did it myself – generator, soldering gun, heat shrink tubing and magnifying glass. Took me about ten hours, but I did get my phone working again. Six months later the phone company came by and put a nice splice box over my work and called it good. Lazy weasels.
When you live in the VI you just gotta be resourceful sometimes.
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Well, VI law has the same provisions – called Tampering with a Utility, a high misdemeanor. V.I.C. T-14, SS1263(b)(2) is the appropriate cite, as I recall. However, ya gotta remember that at that time I was a police lieutenant and pretty much the guy in charge of this end of the island. I thought it over very carefully and finally decided not to arrest myself.
Actually, if you look up the language of the law here, you'll see that there must be an intent to damage or receive services without paying. My intent was to repair, not damage. No criminal intent.
Down here, particularly after hurricanes, things are a real mess and there's never enough people to do the necessary work to restore the infrastructure in a timely manner. If you happen to live out in the bush at the “end of the line” as I do, you can wait months for services to be restored. You gotta be resourceful if you're going to survive. That's why I have two generators, my own climbing spikes and harness, etc, etc. I also have gotten to know many of the utility and telephone linemen in my area and managed to mooch a few necessary parts and pieces to effect emergency repairs. When they do get to my area I give them a list of what I've done and where so they can check it, and I assist them with whatever they're doing at the time by doing chainsaw or loader work, hauling lines, or whatever – and providing a few cold beers at the end of the day. Those poor guys get a lot of abuse from people for stuff over which they have no control whatsoever and really deserve better. I treat them well and they treat me pretty well, too. Small-town sort of rules, y'know?
I just wish I wasn't getting on in years – every time I strap on the climbers I know I'm going to be stiff and sore as hell for the next three or four days and I swear I'm never gonna do it again. Then the next time comes along and I'm strapping the damn things on again. I'm really getting too damn old for this shit.
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Any plumbers out there? I finally got hooked up with a valve from the neighbor across the street (current president of the HOA), he had 3 or 4 of them and does one a week or so for the neighbors who are too old to do the digging and can't afford a contractor to do it. All the valves and fittings he has are 1″. After removing the Styrofoam box and insulation away from the water line it seems I have the only 1-1/4″ line in the neighborhood (and the only underground power lines). The couple my parents bought the house from built it themselves for themselves, that may explain the differences. My question, should I get a 1-1/4″ valve and fittings, or just put reducing elbows at the bottom of the unions?
Is wanting everything the same size the correct thing to do or simply being anal?
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Is this your water meter valve? Backflow preventer? I know in some cases the utility companies base their monthly charge on the size of the valve and meter. I think 1″ is pretty much standard anymore for rural areas, maybe 3/4″ for metro?
I see this is the backflow preventer. I'd stay with 1-1/4″ just so you get to keep the volume. Don't know the difference in cost between the 1-1/4″ and 1″ valves.
Account deleted.
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I'm a master plumber by trade, I would get a 1-1/4″ valve and fittings,it's volume and pressure,the 1-1/4″ valve will give you the volume you have now without the valve, but the springs inside the backflow preventer will reduce your pressure by about 3-5 lbs depending on type of backflow valve
Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
“Your Jinma Parts Superstore”
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Thanks Tommy, I did not know about the pressure loss from these valves. If I just had the house and minor landscaping the 1″ would no doubt work. But with the 48' greenhouse and the 45'x80' garden I can use all the volume and pressure I can get.
We are on an odd/even outdoor watering schedule due to not enough pressure for everyone to water at once as it is.
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I don't think back-flow preventers regulate pressure, Bob. But putting a 1″ section of pipe in the middle of a run of 1-1/4″ will certainly create a pressure differential and the flow rate will be limited to that allowed by the smaller diameter conductor, for a given pressure. If you use the spring-poppet type of back-flow preventer, as is common in plumbing use, it will drop the pressure by the spring rate, since the water has to overcome the spring resistance in the forward direction. A swing-flap type back-flow preventer won't have that issue, but they're not as positive acting in this sort of application. (And over half the time people don't pay attention and put them in upside down.)
In the air circuit on my stationary pneumatic forging hammer I use the gravity swing-flap type as it seems to produce a quicker, “crisper” on/off cycle, which is better for that application.
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You have to overcome the spring pressure which cost you a few lbs, most backflows it's 2-3psi. Bob Rooks, not again !!!!! it's not a pressure regulating valve .
Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales Co
“Your Jinma Parts Superstore”
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If I had one of the ten or so houses in the neighborhood that have access to the irrigation ditch I'd just go with the 1″ valve.
But they don't have a view of the Three Sisters and Three Fingered Jack mountains out their kitchen, living room and backyard. Thanks to my parents good judgment we have the pick of the litter.
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Boy they sure are proud of the 1-1/4″ valve. $114.00 for the 1″, $266.00 for a 1-1/4 or 1-1/2″.
I thought the supply house was full of you know what till I checked prices on line. I don't want to know how much a filter is to go in front of this but I hear it doesn't take much to foul one.And Bob, you're right the view is worth it. When the sun comes up and lights up those snow covered mountians it's awe inspiring even after 25 years.
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Another not so great good idea; while waiting to get the 1-1/4 valve I decided to fix the broken down bench in front of my store. Took some would be kindling and cut, drilled, countersunk, routed, and sanded it. Then brought it to the store and used two colors of stain my dad had for at least 40 years
, and four coats of Spar Urethane clear left over from the rocking horse project. Then three coats of candy green on the cast parts and there you have it, a bench that looks so good I have to take it home, because if I leave it in front of the store someone will steal it! Why can't I learn to just fix things “good enough”?
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Thanks Bert, Hal. I've already been razzed by some customers, ” Tinbender's paint and bench restoration”
A few could not believe I brushed on the clear, they haven't done much with wood (the clear flows for several hours). I don't think there would be money painting cars if you had to put on the clear, wait 24 hours and sand, re coat, repeat for four days But heck, you can see yourself in the wood finish
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Hey, I resemble that remark!
But actually, I will be using the auger on the sun porch.
At the far end by the deck the pier was poured too far in, and the post supporting the porch is leaning. Also I will be tying the deck in there and digging footings for pier blocks to extend the deck out flush with the porch. The deck and porch are supported by 2×4's nailed in an “L” shape rather than using 4×4's. The deck is on 4' centers and it would not surprise me if the porch is the same way. When we re-roofed the place some years back we found scrap siding used as sheathing on parts of the garage! 
I will eventually rebuild 3/4 of this house by the time I'm done finding all the short cuts. -
OMG!!
When you said that “the house was built by previous owners not using code” I had no idea. 2×4's instead of 4' posts? Wow. Shortcuts? That's an understatement if I ever heard one. How 'bout they out and out lied….
Well my friend, I don't envy you a bit. Sounds like a lot of work ahead. Wish you the best of luck (and a lot of skill) putting it right.
If the bench is ANY indication, it will look pretty good when your done. Love that bench.
Where do you live and do you keep it by the street out in the open unguarded at night… Say about 2 am??
LOL
Jack.
People are hilarious...
I'm supposed to choose and be in one of the 2 parties. And NEITHER is worth a damn! -
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