Foton 40hp

Hi John, welcome.

I'm not all that familiar with Fonton tractors, but I believe the pump on the back of the alternator is an air or vacuum pump that is used in conjunction with a type of EGR valve, that is part of the emissions system. Does it have a hose running to the air cleaner? Have pics?

I think the electrical problems are coincidental and unrelated.

The pump sounds like it is getting very dirty air. The pump will have to be rebuilt or replaced – it sounds like the vane surfaces are badly scored (which is chewing up the vanes) or the side clearances are too tight. How clean is your air filter?

I'm inclined to think you have a bad EGR valve. The pump would normally pump in clean air to add to the exhaust to help produce a cleaner burn, but you are getting hot exhaust gasses back to the pump instead. At least that would explain the vanes going to hell so fast.

I'm thinking about my answer to your post. I think my answer is right, I just don't think you have an EGR valve. I believe the pump on the back of the alternator is a “smog” pump whose purpose is as I stated to mix fresh air in with the exhaust. An EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) valve re-routs some of the exhaust back into the intake manifold to be re-burned at certain RPM's, and would not be on the side of the engine or require a pump. I am not familiar with the Futon tractors and their engines but do know a little about the difference between an EGR valve and a smog pump, just had a brain fart when I posted I guess

Time to do a little research, this has me asking questions

Tin,

My TY395 has a solenoid on the end of the intake manifold with a ~1/2″ ID steel tube coming directly from the exhaust manifold. The solenoid is regulated by a jacket water temperature sensor. When the engine reaches a predetermined temperature the solenoid is energized and lets exhaust gasses mix into the intake manifold. This, along with the PCV system, makes for some pretty cruddy intake air, not even sure it's working…

I think with the air pump, air was injected directly into the exhaust manifold just downstream of the ports. Could be wrong tho…

Correct Bob. What you describe on your engine is an EGR circuit. That's why I don't think what is on the Futon has anything to do with recycling exhaust gasses through the intake and re-burning them. Without seeing this setup first hand it sounds like a fresh air pump mounted on the back of the alternator. If that is what this pump does, and the system has a broken check valve, exhaust pressure may overcome the pumps fresh air pressure and allow hot gasses to enter the pump, destroying it.

What I don't understand is the lines from the pump entering the side of the engine, unless the manifold for the AIS ( Air Injection System) is cast into the block. Or, the pump does something else entirely.

Hi Guys,

It is a vacuum pump used to control an actuator for the EGR system.  There should be two lines going to the engine block.  The pump is lubricated via engine oil.  One line feeds oil the other is the oil return.   

Wow, I would think a small electric vacuum pump would have been much cheaper. 

OK, Larry said it's a vacuum pump for thr EGR, and he would know since he sold and serviced them (Thank's Larry!). To check if you're getting oil I'd loosen up the fittings (or if the alternator is off) and crank it with the fuel shut off and see if you have oil. The only way no oil would damage the vanes is if it got hot enough on the bearing side to melt the vanes, but something is burning this up real quick. Does the damage seem to be confined to the vanes? Does the unit spin freely?

 At the least I can't believe they didn't make a provison for a “mechanical fuel pump” diaphram type vacuum pump instead of this contraption. 

Well Larry shed a lot of light on the subject. There should be then, three hoses on the air pump: a) Oil in. b) Air in. c) Air out. I'll speculate that the “oil in” hose has a very small orifice located in it somewhere (provides a slight mist of oil to lubricate the vanes, probably in the fitting where the hose attaches to the side of the engine block oil gallery, however it could also be in the other end of the hose where it attaches to the air pump. It could also be an integral part of the pump. This orifice is probably plugged.

This system is nothing new or unique. It is/was used by GM on a lot of their vehicles, and also BMW, Jaguar, etc. There are also vacuum pumps built for racing.

Alternator vacuum pumps

There should be three lines.  Oil in, oil out and vacuum.  Without looking I can tell you that the whole EGR system does not work unless you have replaced the vacuum lines.  The Chinese rubber lines are normally split by the time the tractor is delivered to the dealer.  The vacuum line will run from the pump up to the actuator.  The actuator is controlled by an ECM that is normally mounted very near the actuator.  Basically when the engine gets up to operating temp then it tells the EGR system to start working.  You don't need it.  Mine has not worked in two years. 

Your options are fix it which I would say is find out why it is not getting lubed. Or do away with it.  Depending on your exact setup you may be able to plug the oil lines and just take the pump off.   Don't know for sure as I can't see that far. 

I stand corrected if it is a vacuum pump, however, John said there was a hose that went to the “air intake” and that's what threw me off. And not having a pic to look at (for me) is like shooting blanks in the dark and hoping to hit the bull's eye.

In the grand scheme of things the extra pollution from one Chinese tractor not having a working EGR circuit will probably not speed global warming up that much.

And your intake air will be that much cooler and cleaner.

And someone at the EPA will still have a job making sure these tractors are imported with all this crapola.

That was me with the “plugged orifice”.

The purpose it serves is all about clean air and air quality. See here.

But just so you know the truth, Larry is correct and it's a matter of symantics. Yes, you are required to have all emission systems working correctly. Will they hunt you down and give you a stiff fine if it isn't? Highly unlikely. Will your engine operate more efficiently if the emissionn system is “broken”? Very much so. Your call.

I agree with Bob's comment about
pictures. It is like shooting in the dark. I maintain that the
Chinese have never built two tractors that are identical. I have had
several in stock with consecutive serial numbers and I could find
differences in them. Some electrical, some mechanical. Pics really
help.

Larry

I see plugged fittings and a single wire delco in your future just make sure that there is not any part of the oil path does not starve another part of the engine, maybe to be safe tube between the 2 fittings

Tinbender wrote:

“Not too sure I'd be braggin' about that”

Aye, didn't even think of what I was sayin' y'know.

Dave wrote:

Bob, I agree with Tin.  That plugged orifice should be looked at 

These alternators normally put out plenty of juice unlike the little ones on the Jinma tractors.  Having said that if mine ever gives up it will get the Delco treatment and the vacuum pump and the rest of the unneeded stuff will become history.   

No, they don't.

“One out and one hose in the side of the engine.”

What does that mean? Please post a picture.

Some of the old goober motors the vacumn pump bolted to the back of the altnator, mabey you could remove the pump nad usr the current altnator