Forum › Forums › Tractor Troubleshooting › Jinma 284 will not turn over
- This topic has 19 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 10 months ago by dogdoc.
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December 30, 2012 at 10:57 am #30705
The engine will not turn over. I thought it was a loose wire because this has happen for the last 2 days. When I try to start the amp gauge goes all the way down but the engine will not turn over. I checked the wires and then all of a sudden I could start it. Today I cannot get it to turn over. I put a screw driver across the starter terminals with the ignition switch off and I hear a spinning noise from the starter but the engine does not turn over. I really do not know how a diesel engine works. Any help would be appreciated .
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December 30, 2012 at 11:27 am #35488
First, a diesel doesn't need electricity to start, the switch only energizes the other electrical devices. Compression is what fires the engine off.
If you jump across the two large solenoid terminals all your doing is making the starter motor rotate. To engage the bendix into the flywheel so the starter motor turns the engine you have to jump a hot wire to the small terminal on the solenoid. If the starter doesn't engage the flywheel and spin the engine your starter is defective.
Since you said when you jumped the terminals and the starter motor spun then that part is working. If when you jump a hot wire to the small stud on the starter solenoid and the starter doesn't turn the engine over and doesn't even spin the starter then you probably have a defective starter solenoid.
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December 30, 2012 at 12:20 pm #35490
What Carl says is true.
Also, using the correct terminology will help too. There is no ignition system on a diesel engine, hence no ignition switch. It's a key switch.
Make sure all of your electrical connections are good, including the battery posts and chassis ground connection. Make sure the transmission is in neutral, key switch is turned on, and then jump between the large and small terminals on the solenoid. Engine should start.
The reason for the key switch to be on is that there will be field current going to the alternator so it lessens the risk of damaging the voltage regulator.
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December 30, 2012 at 1:54 pm #35491
As an aside, make certain you have the clutch pushed in all the way when you are using the starter switch (there is a safety switch engaged when the clutch is pushed in all the way). If you using a jumper wire to engage the starter solenoid, make certain you have the transmission in neutral.
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December 30, 2012 at 7:23 pm #35493
Thanks for your help so far. What I did first was to jump the solenoid and all I got was a big arc, the engine did not turn over. I took a hammer and tap the solenoid a couple of times and jumped the terminals again and the engine turned over. I was able to start the engine after that. My question now is do you think it is being hung up somehow or is there a electrical short in the solenoid. Is it possible to fix it or just replace the starter. thanks again I am learning a lot .
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December 30, 2012 at 8:51 pm #35494
You can remove the solenoid and take it apart. The plunger in the solenoid may be dirty or rusty. Clean the bore and the plunger and put a very thin film of high temp wheel bearing grease on the plunger and in the bore. By thin film I mean it should just feel greasy not look greasy. All you want it for it to move freely and not get corroded or stuck again.
I took my starter apart and cleaned and lubed it shortly after I bought it. The starter was dirty and dry, no lube at all. Yours probably needs the same thing done to it.
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December 30, 2012 at 9:56 pm #35496
This is where Carl and I disagree.
I say do not use any type of oil or grease in the solenoid motor (yes, that's the technical term for the coil and plunger) for two reasons:
1) Grease, when cold, adds high current draw to the coil because the plunger doesn't move easily
2) We all know that grease and oil attract dust and dirt like a magnet – the last thing you want in your starter
Instead, lubricate the solenoid motor with a graphite solution such as Lock-Eez or any good graphite spray. Your starter will thank you.
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December 31, 2012 at 10:33 pm #35501
I really appreciate all the help. I have one more question and it probably will seem dumb to you guys but here goes. To lubricate the solenoid with graphite do I have to remove the starter or will the solenoid come off separate. I see 2 screws that hold it together and was wondering can I just take them out or what. Thanks again
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January 1, 2013 at 12:50 am #35502
There is a small bolt or machine screw on each side holding the “ears” to the starter motor. Remove those after disconnecting the battery cable at the battery post, and disconnect the battery cable at the solenoid along with the small wire. There will be a link and a clevis pin with a cotter pin at the end of the solenoid – remove them and then lift off the solenoid, remove the rubber boot and the motor plunger will come out.
You can also remove the bakelite end by removing all of the nuts on the copper studs to check the relay contacts.
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January 1, 2013 at 3:28 am #35503
If you are interested, send me a PM with your Email address and I can send you a couple of PDF files. One is the Starter disassembly and the other is the Solenoid.
My suggestion is that you do both.
RonJ
ronjin
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January 1, 2013 at 9:44 am #35504
To RonJ. I really appreciate your help. I do not know how to send a PM. I am in my 70's and still learning. My email is mttoptv@oldphonos.com
Thanks again
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January 1, 2013 at 8:55 pm #35506
you might want to review some of the posts on the electrical issues causing starter motor problems.sometimes what you would think is mech. is electrical.
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January 1, 2013 at 11:39 pm #35509
Files have been sent to your Email account.
RonJ
ronjin
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January 9, 2013 at 10:15 pm #35567
No ignition system on a diesel ? then how does the fuel ignite to operate the engine, you know make the pistons go up and down to create torque and horsepower to get your work done with the tractor.
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January 9, 2013 at 11:42 pm #35568
Compression.
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January 10, 2013 at 12:26 am #35570
Chichi wrote:
“No ignition system on a diesel ? then how does the fuel ignite to operate the engine, you know make the pistons go up and down to create torque and horsepower to get your work done with the tractor.”
Ahem,
Do you see any spark plugs? Spark plug wires? Distributor? Coil? Carburetor?
It's a compression-ignition engine not a spark-ignition engine.
Time to hit the books and do some Googleing.
Start with Rudolf Diesel.
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January 10, 2013 at 1:56 am #35571
And George Washington Carver. The early American diesels ran off peanut oil.
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January 10, 2013 at 9:21 am #35572
I saw a program that said the first diesel engine adolph diesel made ran on coal dust has anyone else saw or read this? I think they showed a picture of it and it was fairly large stationary type single cyl.
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January 10, 2013 at 11:28 am #35574
That makes sense. I'm sure that went away for the same reason you don't see anyone using grain dust!
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January 10, 2013 at 2:32 pm #35578
Hey Ron I am not sure how to send a PM to you, but could you send me the starter/solenoid pdf please. Email is below
Thanks
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