My LW6 backhoe arrived today!! HELP

Was your dealer aware that your tractor was NOT a Jinma? Your tractor MAY have a  four-bolt plate just above the splined PTO shaft that covers the tang drive for the PTO pump – this is where that pump would attach. If you don't have that cover plate then you will have to either plumb the hydraulics off of the tractor's system or get a Prince PTO pump.

The “center arm” or adjustable top link you are referring to attaches to the seat support. Just below the seat are three or four holes for that purpose.

You are going to want to flush the hydraulic system and give the reservoir a thorough cleaning before putting the hoe into service. You will want to use ISO AW 32 hydraulic oil which is available almost everywhere.

You're on the right track Ben.

Hi Ben,

Here's a link to maybe a better manual than what you have.

http://www.pegasus-industries……ackhoe.pdf

My LW7 backhoe has a pto pump gearbox that slides on the tractor pto shaft and is held in place with chains.

Make sure that all your hydraulic hoses are connected properly!

Have fun putting it together!

Ben,

That “piece of pipe” is an internally splined hollow shaft that slides over your existing splined shaft. That pump setup uses an overdrive transmission (gearbox) that allows the pump to change direction of rotation and run at engine speed when your PTO is engaged in the “540” position. Yes, the hoe will have to be fully functional to perform this. Do not run the pump dry or deadhead it.

I'm not familiar with your tractor so it may not have the provision to mount a tang drive pump after all. Looked at your pics and you may have that mounting buried underneath the bracketry.

Do not run the pump dry or deadhead it.??????????

Yes, that is correct – do not do those tings or you will b e buying a new pump almost immediately. 

If you run the pump with no fluid in the reservoir and pump, the internals of the pump will be trashed in short order.  The suggested method is to fill the sump with oil, then pour some oil in the pump itself (through the outlet and/or inlet) and then start it up slowly to give it time to purge the air form the system.  Note that this is for an open-center system – a closed center system would probably have different guidelines but I don't know them.

Deadheading the pump means running the pump with the outlet blocked – this can happen if you have quick-connect hoses and the outlet hose is not connected or the connector has an internal failure so it doesn't open when connected to the other half of the connection.  The pump will be trying to pump the fluid against complete resistance and thus trying to compress an incompressible fluid.  The case of the pump and/or the seals will be blown out.  If the seals are blown out they can be replaced,but if the case splits you're screwed.

One of the most common hydraulic pump deadheading scenarios is when someone takes the FEL off their tractor and fails to hook the hoses from the pump to each other.  With the hoses open, the ball checks in the connectors are closed and the fluid has nowhere to go so it deadheads the pump and blows it up.  Only take a few seconds of run time to do this, too.  You don't get a warning, in other words.

Ben,

If it helps you, here is a picture of the back of my Jinma284.

The darker rectangle plate with 4 bolts directly the covered PTO shaft is the cover for access to the auxiliary PTO connection that Bob Rooks mentioned.  My JW03 backhoe connected here rather than on the PTO shaft and I believe that most of the Chinese backhoes did.

RonJ

Ben,

Here is a picture of the front and back of the hydraulic pump.

RonJ

Ben,

Not sure if we are communicating, so let’s try again. I have the Jinma 284 with a JW03 Chinese backhoe.

A is the PTO shaft that is not used for this backhoe.

B is the 4-bolt cover which covers a slotted shaft for the Auxiliary PTO.

C is the CBN-E3 pump which attached in place of the 4-bolt cover and into the slotted shaft.

RonJ

Ben,

Does you pump look like this?  What is the number on it?  If it is a CBN series, it will not go directly onto the tractor PTO shaft.

Does the back of your tractor look like this with a 4-bolt plate above the PTO shaft?

If it is a NO to these 2 items, you will have to tap into your tractor hydraulics to use the hydraulic pump that already exists on the tractor or get a pump that will actually mount on the PTO shaft as I think that Bob Rooks already mentioned.

RonJ

Ben,

I can’t tell for sure which photos in the album are yours, but if I’m looking at the correct ones –

Your pump mounts to a reddish colored adapter that then slides over the PTO shaft. Correct?

When the PTO is engaged there is a tremendous amount of rotational pressure on that pump. This requires bars or chains to prevent it from swiveling. A piece of sheet metal will not hold it.

I will need to let someone else walk you through that.

RonJ

Ben,

This is how we modified our pump gearbox to be securely attached to the PTO on our Jinma 454.

Ben,

What the others are talking about on the mounting of the PTO pump is a torque limiter –  a means of keeping the pump assembly from rotating when the PTO turns and the hydraulic pressure makes the whole pump want to spin around.  There's nothing magic about this.  Most guys just use a piece of chain or a steel bar to connect the pump's gear box (the red part) to the tractor frame.  Something as simple as a piece of 1/4″x1-1/2″ flat bar about 16″ long that is bolted to the gear box and sticks out far enough on one side to hit against the drawbar frame would do the job fine.  So would a chain.  Your sheet metal might work, if it is heavier than about 3/32″ thick.  If it is too thin it will get twisted up when the pump is under load and allow the pump body to turn and damage your hoses.

  Generally, the hydraulic lines are stiff enough to keep it from slipping off the PTO shaft, but something to hold it there wouldn't hurt – a bungee cord or piece of chain would do fine, I think. 

Half the ones I've seen with a torque bar for the anti-rotation the guy just
used a pair of ViseGrips to clamp it to the drawbar, or let the torque
keep it there.  (grin)  I'm not saying I recommend that, of course! 

Ben,

There are 2 requirements that need to be satisfied.

1- The gearbox/pump needs to be fastened so that it will not slide off of the PTO shaft.  I don't believe that the hydraulic hoses by themselves will do that.

2 – Gearbox needs to be fastened so that it can not rotate.

Bert's fixture satisfies both those requirements and there are other methods of doing it also.

Bob Rooks – where are you?

RonJ

Hi Ben,

Don't do anything more 'til I get back in a couple hours. So far so good

Ha ha,

Had to get to work – night shift.

Anyway, be careful about mounting the transmission/pump assembly rigidly to the tractor as in Bert's pics. Rigid mounting doesn't allow for any misalignment and can put undue lateral stresses on the PTO shaft bearings unless perfect. My Prince pump just “floats” on the shaft and is held in place by the reaction (torque) chain, which for this type of pump is all you really need. Do not attempt to operate the pump without some sort of reaction device otherwise the hoses will instantly turn into black spaghetti.

When you engage the PTO make sure you put it in the 540 position. I recommend that you have the engine at low idle. Watch the level in the hydraulic reservoir as you cycle the hoe functions and top up as needed. You want to do a final oil check with all of the cylinders retracted.

Good luck.

Ben,

Yep, the TPH is the only thing holding the backhoe, unless you go to a frame-mount hoe set-up.  You need to keep that in mind when deciding how hard to work the hoe.  That hoe is probably small enough that it won't destroy the TPH even if you do get vigorous with it, but why take a chance?  Sometimes it is good insurance to just rent a Case 580 or a track hoe when you have big work to do.

The plug on the top of the PTO pump's gear case is where you lube the gear case.  I'd guess it uses something like 80W90gear oil, but others would know better.  It is not where you prime the pump – you'd do that through the pump inlet hose,if necessary.  However, if your hydraulic sump for the hoe is above the level of the pump it will prime itself, just run it slowly at first with the outlet hose disconnected and put to run into a bucket. As soon as you get flow, shut down and hook up the outlet hose.  You should be ready to go, I think.  As previously noted, I don't have a backhoe so others will know better than I do.

Foggy and cold?  You can keep that, thanks!  I hate cold.

Rich

That will probably work Ben – my only concern would be that it doesn't allow the pump assembly to “float” on the PTO shaft to accommodate little alignment issues.  Just keep an eye on it to make sure it hasn't gotten knocked off of true and it will most likely be fine. 

If you see any tendency on its part to shift around any you might want to switch to the chain like Bob Rooks uses – I'm just a mite leery of anything “rigid” that doesn't have to be and chain allows the assembly to shift around freely to seek its own alignment but not fall off or torque around and scramble your hoses.

The 80W90 gear oil will be better than none at all, I guarantee that!

Looks like you're well on your way to having a back hoe.

I’m using phone right now. You will have to revise your mounting brackets.

In my case I slide the gearbox on the PTO shaft and once correctly aligned it attaches or clips itself securely on to the PTO shaft and you can't remove the gear pump from the PTO shaft without pulling on the release mechanism on the neck adapter of the gear pump that attaches to the PTO. Once the gear pump is securely attached to the PTO, I then mount the bracket properly.

Ben, when you slide your gear pump on your PTO shaft does it secure itself to the point where you can't remove the pump from the PTO shaft without pulling or pressing on a mechanism to remove it?

OK. Without going into a lot of detail, you should “X” the brackets from the upper two bolts on the transmission to the upper thread bosses on the tractor (where you have them attached now), or from the upper bolts on the transmission straight down to the lower thread bosses on the tractor. The brackets should be a minimum 3/16″ thick. This is necessary because eventually you will be demanding 20+HP and a couple hundred foot-pounds of torque from this pump.

Ben, re-read myth post. Two brackets “X” at top or two vertical top to bottom. You have to keep the fulcrum point as far away from the shaft CL as possible. Jeez I hate doing this on a phone.

That's cool!

A lifetime supply of Hawaiian shaved ice.

How long has that been there?

For reference, here is a visual depiction of my recommendation.

Use either the blue or violet configuration – not both.

I think the violet is prettier than the blue. 

I've been watching this closely because my own HW03 BH will arrive next week.  I'm mostly interested in the hoe setup, flushing etc.

Relative to the bracket for resisting the pump torque, I don't want to interfere with Bob's excellent advice; however, some thoughts are as follows:

• It seems like a stout bracket could attach to two of the four bolts that are set back from those four closest to the PTO inlet.  The bracket would attach to any two that are one above the other via longer bolts to accomodate it.  If the bracket was perhaps 3/8″ thick X 1″ width and then enough length to fit up between the top lift mount “ears”, it would be stout and have long leverage.
• By forming the bracket with two offsets it might do the job.  The first offset is to angle it or jog it “hockey stick like” , then a “return” to bring it directly under those ears.  Then a second offset would bring it closer to the tractor and make up for that space.  It could be first made from carboard and then brought to a fab shop.
• Another solution could be used to keep the pump from falling off.  I'm surprised the pump PTO opening doesn't have the lock or ball detent to securely hold it onto the male PTO. 

Hi Ben,

Simply reverse the hoses on the pump. The gearbox changes the pump rotation, so maybe on your tractor the PTO actually turns the same as the engine. Not so on others.

Nice job on the brackets.

No need for adapters Ben, just swap the bolted flanges.

That copper piece won't last 30 seconds when you start workin it. Use a 1″ steel EMT coupling instead (for the very short term).

The flanged hose connections, from side to side on the pump.

Hi Ben ,

it seems you have the same problem than me with your lw6 (inverted hoses) see my last post LW6 Backhoe problem, I have just received a Prince pump this morning to replace the blown factory pump ,I hope  it will work …

Streetrod,

Be sure to check your shaft rotation. The pump will have arrows on it.

Ben,

The gearbox should only be about 1/2 full, not to the top.

The hydraulic system will take about 2 to 3 gallons to fill all of the cylinders, hoses, and valves.

It now sounds like a blown pump shaft seal, a casualty from initially running the pump dry. Not a big job to replace. Tommy has pump kits. Can you tell if the oil thats leaking is hydraulic or gear oil?

In looking at your pics again I see that there is quite an offset. Probably should have gusseted those offsets.

Dear Ben ,

Your pump made the same than mines….Horrible experience I have 2 units here and I cannot sell them because nothing works , if you remove pump from gearbox you will see the shaft seal outside the “C” clip causing hydraulic fluid passing thru the gearbox ,the first time I has just replaced the seal in place to make some test on BH controls ,only few drops leaks from gearbox when operating stabilizers but when I tried to move the digging joysticks the seal blows again ,I has received a PRINCE pump this morning as recommended by some CTOA users and I will install it shortly ,but I think the problem are into the joysticks and I don`t want to blow a $600 pump for fun

I have pics of the failed seal but I don`t know how to join them to that post

Hi Ben and Bob

Bob you just said the seal failure are caused by a pump running without oil , right .

Ben`s problem are inverted hoses like my 2 new BH causing running pump few seconds without oil ( time to realise pump not sucking oil )

Do you think if I install a new factory pump on the gearbox ,with the hoses at the right place ,she will not blow

I bought a Prince pump $650 for the BH I want to keep for me

but I have 2 units one for me and one for sale ,and I can get a CBN pump locally for $325 for the BH I want to sell (faster than possible ,cheaper than possible)

sorry again for my bad english

Thanks

Stephan (streetrod)

Streetrod wrote:

“Do you think if I install a new factory pump on the gearbox ,with the hoses at the right place ,she will not blow?”

Well it shouldn't. Depends if there are any restrictions that woud cause deadheading. If the pump is mounted on a Chinese tractor's splined shaft, with a gearbox, the suction side will be on the right, as viewed from the rear. The same as if it was directly mounted with the four bolts for the tang drive.

Thanks bob for fast reply,

I made the same than Ben ,I have disconnected the small hose who runs to the controls to see the oil flow ,pto at idle for less than one minute  ,nothing drips .. inverted hoses mounts and pump shoots oil , but maybe the pump has been already damaged and cannot hold pressure enough to move big cylinders , don`t know

the stabilizers movement dont makes pump seal blow ,the release valve must not be the problem? 

I cannot spend more money just to try ,it looks like a financial nightmare

Stephan

Ben,

Apparently the pump seal has blown into the gearbox, thus filling the gearbox and blowing that seal also. Seems that there should be a vent hole on top of the gearbox and the oil would have come out of there first. Hmm.

You can probably get a new gearbox shaft seal at NAPA or a commercial shop. Don't know offhand who carries those parts domestically. In any event, you need a pump seal kit, maybe the gearbox seal will be OK once you take care of the pump.

Streetrod,

It sounds like your pressure relief valve has debris in it, holding it open. Disassemble and clean it. Make sure to count the turns on the adjusting screw so you get it back close to the same pressure.

You will have to unbolt the pump from the gearbox (four cap screws), then disassemble the pump (four long bolts w/ nuts). You will only need to take off the front of the pump to replace the shaft seal, but if you get the kit disassemble the whole pump. Make witness marks on the ends and body so you will get it back together exactly.

Forgot to mention: Keep everything CLEAN! But you already knew that.

Hi ben and Bob ,

I will try to disassemble the relief valve this morning ,but I have no idea how it works ,I got a new CBN pump yesterday $325 plus tax ,and I`m afraid to put it on the gearbox

I will also get some fittings to fit the PRINCE pump on the BH I will keep for me ,

you has already mentioned Prince pumps are better than CBN ,Is it a good idea to make tests with this one after cleaning the release valve   

Thanks for your patience

Stephan

Streetrod wrote:

“you has already mentioned Prince pumps are better than CBN ,Is it a good idea to make tests with this one after cleaning the release valve”

Not sure what you mean.

Hi Ben ,

I just came back from Hydraulic shop with new hoses and fittings for Prince Pump ,I have to go to work and I will install everything tomorrow ,BH # 1 problem supposed to be solved

but I have news about our CBN pump ,I get my blow pump to that shop and the guy told me you should not invert hoses “BUT” we dissasemble the pump and he shows me how invert gears into the pump to get it right ,the guy are convicted THE PROBLEM IS CHINESE PUT ON GEARBOX PUMPS WITH WRONG ROTATION ,It is right…. first ,this guy is a génius and he give us the solution ,

As stated precedently I got a new CBN  ( I can get one for you too if you want ) and I will not take any chance and this guy will invert gears on that pump Monday morning  and testing in the afternoon ,

I has tested the gearbox on tractor and pump hole turns counterclock  our pumps are clockwise

It seems the boat will be on the shore shortly !  

 Stephan

I will post results as soon as possible ,It`s possible a mistake has been made at the BH manufacture to get the same problem at both end of Canada ,do you has ordered your BH on E-bay ,a BC company who sells motors to put on bicycles ? If yes they don`t have any parts

I have ordered the 2 BH direcly from China early this spring and both have the same problem than yours ..Bizarre

Stephan

Stephan,

Your hydraulic guy only flipped the pump body around end to end (which is a little more advanced), he didn't “invert” any gears (they will only work in one direction). That way the slightly larger port is on the suction side. That won't make much difference anyway because you will never be using that pump at capacity. You will find that you will only be able to operate the hoe at around 1,400 r/m max. Any operation at higher r/m's will result in barely controllable functions because of the poor quality of the Chinese valve stack and large ID hoses. You'll see.

Ben,

The seal must be perfect, no nicks allowed.

Hi Ben 

The BH # 1 with Prince pump works perfectly ,without cleaning anything ( I don`t know how clean a release valve ) but anyway it works ,It`s like Christmas for a 5 years kid 

by now BH # 2 ,Ben we are in front of the same problem with our CBN pump ,I really regrets the purchase of that replacement pump last wednesday and I have no idea how much time consuming it will take to get results ,so if you have no guarantee from your supplier ,get a Prince Pump HC PTO 7A on e-bay and go to your local hydraulic shop to modify hour hoses ends (SAE) to fit on the pump ,

 I took mine from this seller    mooney99_1976_1   $395 plus $85.65 USPS shipping

Stephan

It will fit on your tractor for sure ,my PTO turn clockwise like yours ,

When you will receive your Prince pump it`s very easy to fit , you will get fittings with your pump but I have not used them ,

I went to Motion Canada Hydraulic supply  I give you parts numbers

you have to get the 2 pump hoses they will cut them at the pump end to install SAE fittings

I bought 2 elbow fittings

00375 f 07954 04251583

6801-10-12-nwo-fg elbow  $12.72

00028 f 64328 00316735

6801-12-16-nwo-fg elbow  $15.71

and two hoses ends to be install on your own hoses

00375 f 25153 00278761

6ge-10 fjx  fitting               $10.40

00375 f 07954 04251583

8g-12fjx bulk                     $12.72

Hope it will help you

Stephan

Hio Ben ,

the prince pump have arrows for rotation ( clockwise ) and marks IN and OUT

Stephan 

I think will purchase a prince pump for the other BH and sell the CBN on ebay to save time consuming …..

Stephan

Good choice Ben.

When you get your new pump make sure to check the rotation arrows. Since your PTO shaft turns clockwise, the suction side will be on the left. Good luck.

Yes, it will fit on your shaft.

This will greatly simplify the Prince pump installation. I recommend it, it saves a lot of engineering time. Prince Torque Bar Kit.

If I knew how to interpret the part numbers better I could advise, but basically what you will need is:

1) One #16 (1″) SAE ORB X 3/4″ (#12) Male JIC, 90° elbow.

2) One female 3/4″ JIC hose end swivel X 3/4″ single wire crimp.

3) One #12 (3/4″) SAE ORB X 1/2″ (#8) Male JIC, 90° elbow.

4) One female 1/2″ JIC hose end swivel X 1/2″ double wire crimp.

You will need to take the hoses to a hydraulic shop to be crimped.

Ben wrote:

You mean the 2 hoses that are on the BH now. The one from the tank and  one to hydraulics??

 YES, the pump ends.

Got this from another site…………..

The first lesson we made, was that the PTO gearbox is the worst part of the whole system. It caused the first hydraulic pump CBN-E310 to leak through the gearbox

With the new Prince pump, not only with the problems of attaching it to the Chinese fittings, I also needed to increase the size of the suction line hose, pressure hose to the valve block, as well as the return hoses. You won't be using this pump anywhere near capacity. Suction hose from the BH reservoir is a nominal 3/4″ ID, discharge hose to valve stack is a nominal 1/2″ ID.

My recommendations therefore are to stay with the CBN-E310 pump, but use GREASE in the gearbox. NOOOOO! How are the upper bearings going to be lubricated?

That is a post from someone very inexperienced, and it is their personal opinion. I had no problem connecting up the hoses to my Prince pump, in fact I even use quick connects because I leave the pump on all the time. See pic.

I admire the patience and persistence from all of you.  At the same time, it seems your supplier, who made money on this, has provided you no support at all?  Who sold you this?  Maybe there's a lesson learned to not buy from this company?

Hi ,I went to the Hydraulic shop yesterday  ,and they have disassembled the CBN pump to change direction as promised ,again they told me chinese have made a mistake about pump rotation ,they also stated all the pumps who blows seals are not junk ,just change gear roration ,(seems simple for spécialists ),replace a new seal ,and you got a new pump without any problem ,but they are cheap and can be never compared to a Prince pump ,the Cadillac of pumps  

I project to make tests tomorrow morning and give you the results ,maybe it could help somebody to not spend money like Ben and me  

Stephan

Ben wrote:

By the way guys,the supplier called me and said they would reimburse me for the cost of new pump just send the paypal invoice I did that..waiting for the $$$$$$$$$$$$ 

They are going to pay for your new Prince pump? Very cool.

I have not yet tested the CBN modifications now ,but if it works ,I will sell the pump and  gearbox to get back money ,hope to forget this nightmare ,if i reorder BH in future I will never ask for pumps and buy Prince pumps for every BH

Hi Ben ,

ask for the full refund for the Prince pump from your seller

the shipping from China are nearby $ 200 for a CBN pump priced at $40

and they dont like to ship little parts too moch time consuming

Hope it will help you

Stephan

I believe those guys are just importers, not actual dealers like Tommy and Ronald that have a brick and mortar service and parts departments. I will always recommend staying away from importers because most often you get dropped like a hot potato once the final payment is made, and that is when the Bill of Lading is signed and your tractor or machine is placed on a ship. Then it's between you and the shipping company and/or forwarder.

Ben/Stephan,

I'm sure you've asked yourself on many occassions why the pump shaft seal is not holding up!? Why is there so much pressure at the pump that causes the pump shaft seal to release!? Once Stephan installed the Prince pump why didn't he encounter any issues!? You've tried reversing the hoses, modifying the pump and you've tried various ways to mount pump gearbox to the PTO…what can be causing this problem!? Can it be that there is some serious design issues with the pump gearbox setup!? Is there a piece miissing on the gearbox to keep pressure on the pump shaft seal!? How can this be determined without spending a whole lot of money!? All to say that you'll probably never find out and that can be quite frustrating…but don't lose any sleep over it!

It looks like the Prince pump is the direction to go to solve the chinese bachoe pump gearbox issue. Thanks for posting your issue and I can tell you that once I start having problems with my backhoe pump gearbox, I'll definitely immediately switch over to the Prince pump.

I've been watching this with great interest and admire the patience of those involved.  Ironically, my own self-import frame mounted Jinma hoe is arriving next week and I hope to not repeat this nightmare.  A Jinma dealer friend, Bolton Power,  is coming over with his own pressure relief valve/gage setting gizmo so that we start off on the right foot.  He's been advising me for a long time that the China hoes are quite powerful and he usually sets the relief pressure on the low side, especially for my “284”.

My pump is made to fit the tractor via the blockoff plate above the PTO but I won't take any chances. 

Again, I admire the patience and teamwork I've seen on this thread.

I have been selling Jinma Tractors for years now, In 2002 I ordered a container of these backhoes, it was one of the biggest nightmares I ever had, in order to keep the customers happy I stripped 3 or 4 units for parts, and had alot of problems with the others,I said I would never buy another one and haven't.While there are bargains on Chinese equipment, I think you will find that you will find 20-unhappy Chinese backhoe owners compared to a Happy one.By the time you do all the mods to them to upgrade them you could have bought a quality Korean made backhoe that are very powerfull and smooth as glass to operate.

If you are fortunate enough to get a good chinese backhoe, and you have a hydraulic cylinder leak good luck on finding the correct kits to rebuild it.

Tommy

Affordable Tractor Sales

“Your Jinma Parts Superstore”

http://www.affordabletractorsalesco,com

Don't want to steal the thread.

Tommy's right, especially from his deep experience and we're seeing that now in this thread.

I'm not the average case in that I spend around 8 wks per year in China and bought my hoe factory direct at a price where I'm willing to deal with problems.

Back to original thread…..

Smalljobs wrote:

“My pump is made to fit the tractor via the blockoff plate above the PTO but I won't take any chances.”

FYI, it's the same CBN pump that Streetrod and Ben have. I suspect that there is too much clearance between the gears and the ends. It only takes a few thousandths to break the shear strength of the oil seal (not the lip seal).

Is there anyone out there that got good results from theses china made BH??? 

Yes

I need to qualify with the fact that this is my first tractor (284) and the JW03 backhoe was installed.  I had never used a backhoe before.  I did have some problems with it primarily the pressure relief valve for some time till I got it figured out.  The controls were not very precise.  It was powerful enough for what I needed.  I never had any problems with the CBN pump.  In fact I liked that it was pretty directly tied to the engine RPM and did not need to mess with the PTO speed shift lever.   I would not trade the learning that I got from that and the work that got done with that backhoe.

I now have a Ansung BH660 (similar to Tommy's Tomcat).  The difference is like night and day. I can use two different controls at the same time.   I can move the bucket in inch increments if I want and can now be comfortable using it next to buildings, etc.  I can push dirt sideways.  Obviously the quality is much higher and of course it cost more.

RonJ

Ben wrote:

“Is there anyone out there that got good results from theses china made BH??? “

There are at least four happy campers in this forum, at least two of which switched to the Prince pump. (I'm not included cuz I have a Korean LiTW hoe now.)

Tommy@Affordable wrote:

“If you are fortunate enough to get a good chinese backhoe, and you have a hydraulic cylinder leak good luck on finding the correct kits to rebuild it.”

That's not true. I bought at least two kits from you and three from Phillip at Circle-G before I got the correct kit. Believe it or not, they do exist.

I have a 3pt LW-7, bought in 2006. I have read enough so that I would purchase a different BH were I doing things again. That being said, I have been doing OK.

I assembled the thing from a crate, with no directions but little difficulty, a couple functions I got backward but swapping hose connections fixed those. My CBN pump blew a seal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..UabDrfjATY) immediately, went the Bob Rooks advised Prince pump route.

The hoe does not operate smoothly, although I have learned during use and it's better now. And operating at slower RPM's helps quite a bit as well.

I don't have the caliche issues some have, I'm in an old glacial lake area in sand. I use it for stumps (slowly preparing for a future orchard) and have plans for a ground source heat pump install. So the soil doesn't give me issues, but popping roots is still a pretty good work out.

Also, my tractor has not broken in half, despite dire warnings from posts elsewhere. I know folks probably cringe at that picture, but don't worry, my step-son was holdin' muh beer.

I know things could change tomorrow, but so far I'm happy. I have an eye on the Prince Wolverine 6 spool monoblock valves, which currently sell for about $450 on ebay. But that would also involve dealing with the metric ORFS issues (which may get better someday). But for now, I won't fix things that ain't broke.

If I depended on this for a living, I never would have chosen the LW-7, or Jinma for that matter. I can put up with any inconvenience, I can handle things as they go wrong.

I did upgrade my ZL-30 FEL valve to a Brand LV22 valve, the Chinese valve was OK, but I wanted float and am looking to add a spool via the PB circuit for a grapple.

Bob Rooks said:

Tommy@Affordable wrote:

“If you are fortunate enough to get a good chinese backhoe, and you have a hydraulic cylinder leak good luck on finding the correct kits to rebuild it.”

That's not true. I bought at least two kits from you and three from Phillip at Circle-G before I got the correct kit. Believe it or not, they do exist.

Bob, if you were happy why don't you still have yours ??Why did you switch to a Korean backhoe ? I have ordered rebuild kits 8-10 times, I have at least 250 kits that do not fit any of the LW-06,07 or the HW06,07 backhoes.

I'm not saying there are not some happy owners of these backhoes, because there is. However most have spent additional money for either a Prince pump upgrade, fittings or JIC adaptors,Valve replacements,hose upgrades,ect.If you put that additional money spend on top of the original cost you are alot closer to the cost of Korean made backhoe, without having to work on it.

I bought at least two kits from you and three from Phillip at Circle-G before I got the correct kit. Believe it or not, they do exist.

Before you got the right kit ?, so your saying you had to go thru 5 kits to get the correct one.  ? Well I guess the do exist at some point.

The point is that I personally have seen and talked to alot of customers that purchased these backhoes,almost all have said it was less expensive but would not do it again.

Thats why this forum is here for owners to talk about there equipment, and as a dealer I'm going to express my opinon about them too,

Each owner or potential owners has to make there own decision on if to purchase or not,but it's also the dealers job to advise them on problems,parts problems,operation problems,ect. I rest my case

Tommy

Affordable Tractor Sales

“Your Jinma Parts Superstore”

http://www.affordabletractorsalesco,com

Some GOOD news from Quebec Canada !

PROBLEM SOLVED  I have just finish testing the CBN pump who have gears inverted by my Hydraulic shop ,AND IT WORKS ! YAHOOOOOOOOO!

Don`t ask me how but it takes 5 minutes to do

The pumps shipped with BH have wrong rotation ,I think we will see this issue again and again these BH seems very popular ,

Hope my efforts will help CTOA users

Ben ,i Will make you a confidence ,you will certainly appreciate the Prince pump ,I have both and definitely I will sell the one with CBN pump  ,

another good news your CBN are not junk ,put a new shaft seal and ask a professional to change direction and you got a perfect package you can sell locally ,to refund you a little money ,

I will do that with my 2 failed CBN

Thanks to all supporters, specially Bob

Stephan ,

Hi Ben ,I has not ordered any seal yet but i will need 2 ,

I has purchased locally a new complete cbn pump for one of my 2 BH and a Prince pump for the other (I will keep for me)

Now the hoses are at the right place on the cbn ,bigger hole on pump for sucking and small one for pressure ,no back pressure causing seal blowing  ,simply an error has been made at the Chinese BH manufacture or at the pump manufacture ,

Stephan

StephanHi Ben,

If you want to use your BH before receiving Prince pump ,I think every hydraulic spécialist can make the gear rotation change whith eyes closed … , d`ont try to invert gears by yourself  ,also if your seal are not too damaged it will handle oil because the back pressure do not exist when gears are in the right direction ,if you live near an hydraulic shop it worth the effort , 

Hi ,again

I found something about CBN pumps on the web ,these pumps are available with different rotations ,maybe just a mistake from the guy who order pumps have caused all our problems,

I was happy to see the rotation can be changed without problems ,the tech told me this kind of pump are almost the same to an italian made pump he sells (don`t remember the trademark )  

Model:CBN—E310 Rate of flow:20(m3/h) Pressure:16(Mpa) Material:cast aluminium Rotate speed:2000 Efficiency:90%

With its simple structure, small size, lightweight, safe operation, and convenient maintenance,it is widely used in hydraulic system of agricultural machinery, engineering machinery, light industry machinery, railway machinery and mine machinery.

   Stephan  

That's great that the dealer refunded you with the price of the new pump! Let us know the final verdict once you've got everything up and running!

Ben,

If you look at post #77 from Streetrod (Stephan) and post #88 from Bob Rooks mentions only to change the ends of your present hose to fit the new Prince pump.

Remember to use elbows otherwise you'll have hoses sticking out. May as well do it neatly while your at it.

Hi Ben ,

happy for you to get full refund of your new Prince pump

let us know how is your BH with the Prince ,

The shop have not used fittings included with Prince pump they sold me 2 elbows and 2 crimping ends nothing more ,

Good luck and happy digging !

Stephan

Hi Ben ,

happy for you to get full refund of your new Prince pump

let us know how is your BH with the Prince ,

The shop have not used fittings included with Prince pump they sold me 2 elbows and 2 crimping ends nothing more ,

Good luck and happy digging !

Stephan

Ben wrote:

“,,that pump is a heavy one!!”

Yeah, I'd say bulletproof.

That's exactly why mine stays on, and why I have quick connects on it.

Me? Mad at you?

That's great news Ben! Take a video and post it on youtube and then add the youtube link to your next post.

Enjoy your new toy!

Ben,

What is the engine rpm you use that provides you with the best results for operating your backhoe with the new Prince pump? With my old pump gearbox setup it is around 1500 rpm.

Hi Ben ,

My BH works very well with the Prince pump but another problem occurs ,( this time on my 2011 Jinma 254 tractor )

When the BH or another implement are on the 3 point ,a leak comes from the backplate below the small handle to adjust speed of the 3 point

I have tightened the 2 upper 21 mm bolts but the lower ones are in a very bad place  

impossible to use any tool ,I will try to fix this before using the BH  again

Stephan

Ben wrote:

Feel a lot better about it now then i did a few weeks ago,but i still think it be might be worth extra $$$$$$$$$$$ for the Korean BH ,

Saw this on ebay 2795.00..LW7 i think.

That is a LiTW BH7600, just like mine. LiTW is the Korean manufacturer, and they have Swiss valves with the power beyond ports. That is one helluva deal if you can get it for $2,800.00. I paid $4,200.00 for mine with an extra bucket and a mechanical thumb, and I was getting a good deal at that.

Noticed something in your pic of the Prince pump: the piece of metal that you used for the reaction bar is too light. Appears to be about 3/16″ – 1/4″. If you are going to use flat stock, it should be 1/2″ minimum, or 2″ x 2″ x 1/4″ angle. The bar that comes with the kit is 3/4″ x 3/4″. Also , the S-hook you are using will open right up before you pop the relief valve – recommend using a cold shut chain link instead.

Don't want you to get hurt and wreck all of the good work you've put into it so far.

Now that you have it up and running (congratulations!), consider mounting a return line filter as a next step.

Looking good!

Ben wrote:

“The flat stock is 3/8  they cut it at the welding shop,but it's to long hits of the 3pt. hitch arm..when i rev it up to 1500-2000 rpms it hits the arm and makes a weird sound…”

WHOA! Stop right there! If your PTO turns clockwise the reaction bar must be on the right side of the pump, pulling the chain tight when the pump is running. If your PTO turns counter-clockwise the reaction bar must be on the left side of the pump, pulling the chain tight when the pump is running. The chain should be as short as possible and still allow the pump to float without coming off the shaft. One way to test this is to physically try to pull the pump off, without the tractor running of course.

Sorry, guess I misunderstood.  Enjoy!

Just a note of appreciation for this three year old thread, as I'm undertaking the replacement of my hydraulic pump, on the Yucahai Dozer with the '6 hoe. 

rannit dry, i duz b'leeve.