New Dozer Brakes?

I have pendulum pedals and not the type you have so take this advice with a grain of salt.

If you shortened both rods (via their respective adjustments) the same amount wouldn't that keep the sequence the same while moving the action higher in the pedal stroke?  Thereby increasing the gap when the pedal is fully depressed.

The problem with both pedal systems is the sequencing of the brake, and this is due to the type of actuation of the band. Too much motion is lost to just apply the brake in relation to pedal travel (the steering clutch actuation is fine). I speculate that this system cannot be adjusted nor expected to operate correctly as designed, even at the factory, and was not thought through very well.

The actuating mechanism for the brake is unique to these tractors. The old Cats, Case, IH, etc. use a straight pull rod through the ends of the band using a pivot arm to draw the band ends together. Much better and more accurate. Also, they had separate levers and pedals for the brake and steering.

One thing is for sure – you can't pre-load the brake band to the point of contact and expect to get any life out of them. I suspect that if you can run the adjusting screws all the way in then there isn't much lining left on the band.

In the following weeks (I'm doing this on my vacation) I will present my mod, which in my opinion will correct this engineering design defect.

“What besides bands do I need to order?”

Gaskets. But figure on making your own unless you want to wait. Don't think Circle-G or anyone else stocks final drive gaskets.

I would look at just having them re-lined first. Even though they aren't all that expensive, re-lining should be a lot cheaper.

Took some cleaning up.

Bob, I'm quite curious.  Is there any way for you to easily look and see how much your brake control arm moves when you apply full pedal?  If it involves removing the deck plate, never mind. If you can see it from above though, I would be very interested to hear your estimate.

I ask, because on mine the arm moves quite a bit before the bands make contact with the hub.  There is a lot of slack in the mechanism consisting of the brake band and the rocker arm it is attached to.

Grizz,

I'll be tearing into it by Thursday. The deck plates are coming off anyway to install my mod. But to answer your question, my pedals don't travel all the way to the deck plate stop, they bottom out applying the brake about 5/8″ to 3/4″ before the stop.

I will get that measurement for you. You read my post #4, yes?

Yes I read it and it is exactly what I am thinking as well.  In my case, I could take the cover plate off the brake box and run the tractor.  The pendulum pedals don't have that extra pivot arm that you have so the cover is just a cover.  I could see the brake band is held close to the hub at the two points where the adjustment bolts are, however on the ends where the bands connect to the pivot / actuating arm there is more than a half inch of clearance!  In my case, you can move the brake control arm quite a bit (>1″) before the bands touch the hub at all.

In my opinion that slack is enough for the “sequencing” to happen.  This means the slot in the sequencing link is useless but the slop will provide enough play to “sequence” things…. I think…

Just before Eric came to take the dozer back I was able to get the right side break to work at about 90% using this idea of “pre loading” that slop.  I didn't have enough time to play with it as much as I would have liked.  I wanted to paint some dykum on the hub to see if I could tell when the bands started to touch the hub.

Eagerly awaiting “Yoda's” mod.

I think you just hit on the answer for what to call the level after 500 posts. 

I haven't been able to start on this yet, but will do this week. Sorry for the delay.

No worries.  Personally I don't even have a dozer anyway.

Do you know when you will get it back?

Not a clue and I'm not going to rush them.  I do know he said he only had one clutch in stock so he has to order the other from China.  He said it usually only takes a week or so.  I'm not expecting anything for a long while.  The frustrating part (among other things) is my property is really a 3-season cabin.  The chance of getting it up there before next spring is rapidly dwindling. Actually as I think about it unless it doesn't rain in December there is no chance.

I guess I was fortunate when I rebuilt the final drive on my 2005 NT3500C. Nortrack had all the gaskets. My problem was spacers were back ordered.

I have a question on breaks. Does anyone know anyone that has replaced the brake bands through the top plate on a Nortrac. I noticed that the saddle bags were notched as if to remove the break band actualization pin with out removing the saddle bags. I talked to a supervisor at Nortrac and He said he had heard of it being done though he had not done it himself. 

If you have the floor mounted brake pedals I doubt it could be done.  There is that extra linkage/pivot that would make it hard.  If you have the pendulum pedals it might be possible.  HOWEVER, I think you would have to bend the bands to get them in and around the hub.  This would make them out of round and I believe you would get uneven wear and possibly a spongy pedal feel.

Sam wrote:

Nortrack had all the gaskets.

All my gaskets came out of a tube! 

You are probably right on the break bands. My breaks are good for the moment but I am going to take a more in depth look before dropping another final drive. Not my favorite thing to do…   

Any chance you took pictures of that process?  I for one would like to see a thread on that excitement.

I have pictures of all the damaged parts I replaced. I took them for the person I bought the dozer from. He had represented it to be in good working condition based on the in competent people he had working on it.

He paid for the parts I had to replace… Below is what I found when I dropped the pan



Wow…

I can't look at those pictures without hearing the sounds it must have made. Thanks for the pics.

Sad pictures, but it does reinforce the statement:

“A good mechanic isn't expensive, he's priceless.”

Check out our dozer parts at http://www.circlegtractorparts.com

Just want you to know I'm working on the brake linkage mod. Still have to make a bracket but I'll post some pics of the unfinished mod tonight for comments. Going is slow bcuz there is a lot on my plate right now.

No. They will still operate from the same control arm, but the take-up rate for the brake will be much quicker which will allow the band to be fully relaxed in it's adjusted position, eliminates the need to pre load the arm, and also eliminates the slotted link (which was grossly inadequate IMHO). I could have accomplished the same geometry with rods and bellcranks but this seemed the more expedient method.

All of those pics are taken on the left side. I chose the left side to experiment with because it was easier to access, little hose interferences.

I might add that this system can be adopted to the pendulum pedals as well.