Forum › Forums › Bulldozer & Excavator Operation and Maintenance › steering clutch on Guilin Jlw-d2
- This topic has 21 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 10 months ago by Tontosgold.
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March 31, 2014 at 10:48 pm #30877
I have a small bulldozer, it looks about the same as the one Greg Wilcox rebuilt a couple of years ago. many of the part numbers start with 252-
The right clutch (looking from the back) started slipping so much I couldn't really use the dozer — so I took advantage of the bad weather and took it apart. there is oil all thru the clutch plates — since it is a dry clutch that isn't good.
Here are my questions, can i “degrease” the clutch plates and re-use them — or am I just asking for trouble?
There is not a plug in the vent/drain in the bottom of the steering clutch housing (on either side) should there be a plug in there?
my best guess is that the oil is coming from the transmission (not the final transmission) but I'm not sure, but I haven't been able to figure out how to replace the seals to the transmission or final transmission — anyone have any ideas
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April 1, 2014 at 1:16 am #36849
The clutch discs (not the plates) are not unlike those used in Borg Warner hydraulic “Velvet Drive” reverse gears as used in boats, forklifts, and many industrial applications where they run “wet”. They are NOT cerro-metallic as advertised, but a sintered carbon/copper composite. Personally I wouldn’t try to degrease them because they have become saturated with oil. From your photo it appears the discs have a riveted friction media. Correct?
You must have one of the older Guilin dozers, all of the later model Yuchai’s have drain plugs in the steering clutch compartment, as well as vents in the top cover. One of the periodic inspection points is to check the steering clutch compartment for oil by removing the plug. I would carefully drill and tap a 1/2″ NPT hole at the lowest point in the compartment, but don’t drill into a bolt boss.
I assume you will be installing new seals. Replacing brake bands while you’re in this deep?
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April 1, 2014 at 10:19 am #36850
actually it has a threaded drain hole, there just isn't a drain plug in it so I will put one in,
Yes I will replace the brake bands, they aren't really worn just saturated with oil.
the clutch disks are riveted, but I assumed I should just buy new clutch disks, should I consider re-lining them?
I am a “shade tree” mechanic (on my best days) and I haven't been able to figure out how to replace the seal between the transmission and steering clutch — here is a pic, any ideas?
One other question (for now), do I need to remove the brake drum in order to get the brake band out and back in — it doesn't seem to want to “flex” enough, do I just manhandle it out? I was trying to remove the brake drum to clean it — but it has a strange nut and I can't seem to get it loose.
One last question about fluids — what oil should I use for;
Engine — currently I use 5-30 motor oil
hydraulics — can I use UTF or do I need Hydraulic oil
transmission — ??
final transmission — Currently I use 80 weight gear oil?
Thanks!
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April 1, 2014 at 12:22 pm #36851
Do you have a two or three cylinder engine? Do you have a parts and/or owner's manuals?
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April 1, 2014 at 7:42 pm #36852
I have the 2 cylinder engine, and I have the parts manuals, I called Tim at farm boy and got the seals, clutch plates and brake bands on order. They should arrive on friday.
my plan is to take all of the parts I'm not replacing into a friend of mine who will run them thru his de-greaser. the inner and outer steering clutch drums I am planning on doing my best to get the oil off of them.
I am hoping that when I see the seals it will be obvious how to get the old ones out and the new ones in.
Is there any trick to installing the clutch plates? is there any torquing requirements?
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April 2, 2014 at 9:24 am #36853
Chances are that the clutch discs you recieve aren't going to be riveted, so don't be surprised.
Be aware that if you remove the red sealer coating from the parts, casting sand will sluff off. That's why it's painted on there, it's not just a Chinese thing either.
As far as torquing specs, just use the standard metric guide for the correct property class fastener.
Be sure to inspect the internal splines on the brake drum.
Seal installation: Lip always goes towards the oil.
Lubricants: Transmission and bevel gear compartment (common sump) – 80w/90 gear oil. Final drives (one on each side) 85w/140 gear oil.
The “strange” nut holding the brake drum on is like an axle nut found on almost all trucks. You can get a socket at NAPA or any GOOD auto parts store. They will need dimensions
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April 2, 2014 at 11:14 am #36855
Thanks for your help, as I said I'm sort of a shade tree mechanic, so I am not sure what you mean by this:
As far as torquing specs, just use the standard metric guide for the correct property class fastener.
In the “manuals” I have it doesn't have torque specs for the bolts — are you saying that each bolt type has a standard torque spec?
thanks
Mark
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April 2, 2014 at 4:54 pm #36856
Yes, each fastener whether metric or “inchric” has a torque spec based on the class/grade of steel used and the thread pitch and diameter. There are charts available all over the internet, just Google “Torque Charts” and you'll find one that will tell you what you need to know.
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April 5, 2014 at 9:24 am #36868
Ok, I think I am getting to the end, except I still haven't been able to figure out how to get the old seals from around the drive shaft, I have the ones around the brake drum.
I am only repairing one side, so I haven't taken the other side apart. there is a part named the central driveshaft bearing base which is a machined part and seems to be pressed into the cast iron transmission housing. I can't seem to get the oil seals out with that bearing base in — but I have no idea how I would get that out, especially with the driveshaft still in.
attached is the diagram and parts list from the manual. I'm hoping someone is a lot smarter than me.
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April 5, 2014 at 10:15 am #36870
That Central Driveshaft Bearing Base appears to be threaded in.
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April 6, 2014 at 12:03 pm #36871
Tinbender is correct. You will need a pin spanner wrench or deep axle socket, with two ears removed, of the appropriate size to unscrew it. Expect it to be real tight because it carries the side loading from the bevel gear. I don't know what the torque is, but after you get it reassembled you should take a blue reading on the bevel gear set to make sure it wasn't disturbed. In fact, take a reading before disassembly so you can compare. This procedure is detailed in the owner's manual.
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April 7, 2014 at 12:44 pm #36873
thank you very much, I will give it a try. two other questions;
1. how is the best way to remove those seals, the only way I know how is to take a flat screwdriver where the seal is seated and “drive” it in deforming the seal enough to reduce the pressure on the seat so I can pull it out.
2. assuming that is the best way to remove seals can do you think I can do that with the driveshaft in?
thanks again for all the help!
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April 9, 2014 at 2:41 am #36875
Markr wrote:
“2. assuming that is the best way to remove seals can do you think I can do that with the driveshaft in?”
Umm, nope.
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April 9, 2014 at 2:49 am #36876
Use hydraulic oil: ISO AW 32 or ISO AW 46 (it's cheaper, and it's recommended).
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April 9, 2014 at 9:45 am #36878
Try one of these, I picked this up on Amazon to replace the cam and front crank (oil pump) seals on my Subaru. The Lisle part # is 58430 : Edit#2 I can't seem to put a picture and text on the same post today, try again:
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April 12, 2014 at 1:17 pm #36886
Thinking about the depth of the bearing base you may or may not have to make a longer spring steel hook like the one on the end of the tool.
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April 12, 2014 at 1:29 pm #36887
The seals are set into the back side of the bearing base, which will have to be removed (unscrewed) from the main case to be changed. I really don't think it can be done in situ, but good luck in trying.
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April 12, 2014 at 2:34 pm #36888
Without seeing the housing in the diagram I ass-umed the seals were in the housing behind the bearing base, but that makes sense. Why else would it be called a bearing base, duh.
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April 12, 2014 at 3:49 pm #36890
If it were me, I'd let the seals be replaced from the outside so you wouldn't have to remove the bearing base. Must be Chinese logic.
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April 13, 2014 at 10:22 am #36891
Ok, so I will clear up the mystery, When I got the new seals I confirmed that the side of the seal I was seeing from the “clutch housing side” was in fact the back of the seal. So I took a chance and removed it and replaced it. Good thing because that was where the oil was coming from. the space between the two seals was full of oil.
So I got it back together and was very excited to get out and see if it worked, since I am heading for India today, yesterday was my last chance to try it for a few weeks).
One of the tracks was sagging way beyond specs — but since I was only going to “test it” for a couple of hours, AND in my move I lost my big wrench and cheater bar for adjusting the tracks — I thought what can happen!!
Well to save suspense what can happen is when the tracks are loose rocks can feed into the track/drive sprocket to the point that it snaps one of the track segments
So next I learn how to replace track segments — on a side hill, in relatively loose dirt. I am hoping Farmboys has track segments I can buy,
But the good new is my steering clutch worked GREAT, i ran it for an hour and it started to slip again, So I had to adjust the steering clutch linkage again, I assume that because the plates were new the had to “seat” themselves
thanks again for all your assistance!!
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April 14, 2014 at 12:56 am #36893
You have to be real careful about that with these machines, they don't have rock guards on the swing frames nor the sheet metal to cover them. These aren't Caterpillar. You're lucky you didn't break that bull gear shaft.
Good luck in your travels.
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February 16, 2017 at 5:46 pm #46716
Mark didn’t explain how he removed the transmission/clutch compartment oil seals without taking out the bearing base, I just encountered the same problem. First I drilled pin holes in the the bearing base and made a tool which could engage the pin holes. The bearing base was way too tight and wouldn’t budge so I gave that idea away.
I searched topics on CTOA and found Mark’s post which convinced me to remove the seals with the bearing base still in place. I drilled a small hole through the face of the seal then inserted a Gland Packing Puller which is a strong flexible steel rope with a corkscrew on the end (tip- attach vicegrips to the handle end which creates a surface you can tap with the hammer). The seals come out easily.
There are two oil seals, an inner and outer. I noticed the shaft surface where the outer seal rides was rusty and has chewed out the seal lip. When I am ready to fit the new seals I will sand the shaft back to a smooth surface and apply a little grease which will help prevent rust from returning.
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Excavator Hyundai 17 tonQLD, Australia
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