Total Tear Down of Dozer

Forum Forums Bulldozer & Excavator Operation and Maintenance Total Tear Down of Dozer

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    • #30301
      gdw4078
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        Name is Greg Willcox,  I am in TX and will be tearing down my PT-400 bulldozer to redo the clutch, breaks, steering and backhoe.  While I am at it, I figue I would do a total rebuild.  Should be a fun project.  Subscribe to this topic to see my progress.

      • #32321
        Jackpine
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          Well… welcome to CTOA Greg. cool

          People are hilarious...
          I'm supposed to choose and be in one of the 2 parties. And NEITHER is worth a damn!

        • #32323
          Bob Rooks
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            Hi Greg, welcome.laugh

            This project of yours should be very interesting and informative. Look forward to seeing it unfold.

            Not sure what a model PT-400 dozer is. Is it a Yuchai? Guilin? I know that Yuchai used to make a model YCT-406 but that has been discontinued for a couple of years now. Only difference I could tell was that the engine was a four cylinder 40 HP. All other specs seemed to be the same.

            Would love to see some pics, at your convenience.

            If I get my garage built I plan on doing the brake bands on mine, and maybe some steering clutch work too. Got oil on the left band. I'm coming up on 600 hrs. so I figure that's not too bad, considering.

            Good luck, and feel free to post any questions. hmmm

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          • #32359
            gdw4078
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              PT-400 is a Guilin Product.  My Engine is a 295,  a two cylinder model.  26HP I think.  I used to Live in Stanwood Wa, which is where I bought this unit.  Got her washed up this weekend and I am set to start taking her appart.Clean and ready to move into shop

              Before this project I designed and built a 2 ton crain in my shop (saftey factor of 2).  Did all the work myself.

              Crain for this project

               

              Crain close up

               

              Here is one thing I need to fix.  I am going to redesign this joint.  Crack is both sides of blade arm…

              Nasty Crack

            • #32361
              Jackpine
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                Nice overhead Greg  hailking

                Looks like your “2 ton limit” is based on the hoist itself. The framework appears it will hold more. wink

                 

                Jack

                People are hilarious...
                I'm supposed to choose and be in one of the 2 parties. And NEITHER is worth a damn!

              • #32366
                Bob Rooks
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                  That is one beautiful shop!! hailkinghailkinghailking Reminds me of when I worked for Caterpillar. They spared no cost on their new shop. Even had dual railroad tracks embedded in the concrete floor for driving the crawlers on, and every service bay had a 10 ton gantry crane like yours. We never lifted anything heavier than a ham sandwich. roflmao

                   

                  If that failed weldment is where I think it is, the later (Yuchai?) wishbone design incorporated a full width upper and lower gusset plate.

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                • #32368
                  gdw4078
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                    Thanks all for the complements.  Shop has it's own 200 amp service and air supply furnished by a IR 5hp 2 stage free standing 80 gal air compressor.  Shop is 24 X 36 ft.  Very proud of it to tell you the truth.laugh.  Shop is kind of messy right now.  Going to clean it up some before I back the dozer up into the shop.  Oh I forgot.  Got a stereo in it too so I can rock out to some classic rock.

                  • #32369
                    RichWaugh
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                      That broken joint looks like it was under-engineered to begin with and then subsequent repairs just exacerbated the problem by creating a brittle heat-affected-zone (HAZ) at the edges of the weld.  When you weld a piece that is under high stress and vibration like this piece, I recommend that you pre-heat the weld area to about 400°F and also post-heat and peen the welds.  That relieves the welding stresses in the HAZ so you don't create a stress riser.  The addition of a gusset so the welds aren't under high tensile stress will also help – it will distribute the stresses over a wider area.

                      Very nice looking shop!  I sure wish I had a gantry crane in my shop, but I just don't have the overhead height and I have two posts in the middle.  Best I can do is a little jib crane over the welding bench.  I have one of those cherry-picker engine hoists but my shop is so crowded now there's no floor space left to roll it!  embarassed

                    • #32383
                      Bob Rooks
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                        Greg wrote:

                        “Oh I forgot.  Got a stereo in it too so I can rock out to some classic rock.”

                        At PACCAR Truck R&D we had a 1,000 watt home made stereo in our two bay shop that one of the engineers built. It was awesome playing “Inagodadavida”. Probably where some of my hearing went. Be careful with that stuff…roflmao

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                      • #32665
                        Bob Rooks
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                          Any updates? hmmm

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                        • #32748
                          gdw4078
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                            Summer time is orchard time for me.  No time to work on the bulldozer project until maybe August. frown Then it is full time until I get it finished.  Goal is to be running again next spring…laugh

                             

                            Greg

                          • #32752
                            Bob Rooks
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                              Good luck with the orchard Greg, hope I can hold my breath 'til spring. roflmao

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                            • #33829
                              gdw4078
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                                Okay, It is time to get back to this project.  Shop is cleaned up and dozer will be moved in this week.  Disassemble to begin this weekend 12/3/2011laugh.  Pics of disassemble to follow soon. 

                              • #33830
                                Little_Grizzly
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                                  Hope you don't mind a whole lot of us looking over your shoulders. cool

                                • #33831
                                  gdw4078
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                                    looking forward to it. 

                                  • #33832
                                    gdw4078
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                                      looking forward to it. 

                                    • #33833
                                      Bob Rooks
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                                        Watching…laugh

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                                      • #33851
                                        gdw4078
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                                          Inside the shop 12/3/2011

                                          Well she is in the shop.  I wanted to back her in but she would only go forward. Plan is to start from the outside and work my way into the center.  First part to remove was the top and I already ran into an issue.  My overhead crain is not high enough to lift it off the dozer. OppsOpps

                                           

                                          Looks like I will have to hang a chain from the roof trusses to get her removed. 

                                          Last week I picked up a couple heavy duty shelfs to store parts as I remove them from the dozer

                                          Here is a shot of one of them

                                           

                                          As you can see I got the battery already removed. While I was picking up the shelfs the had this used workbench on display and I decided to add that to my shop as well

                                          New Bench

                                          This will be great for doing detail work.  Here is my existing bench all cleaned up ready to get dirty again

                                          This bench is 13 ft long and 6 in thick.  I used gluelam beams to build her.  She weight 500 lbs.

                                          I don't like wimpy benches…

                                        • #33853
                                          Bob Rooks
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                                            Well, I'm drooling now. Very nice work benches. That looks like the industrial shelving from Costco.

                                            I have the same issue with low overhead, but I'm hoping I may be able to jack up the portable gantry crane high enough between the roof trusses. I haven't gotten that far yet – still putting sealer on the concrete. It's slow going.

                                             

                                            I think you will only have to raise the ROPS enough to clear the sockets and then maybe you can rotate it.

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                                          • #33882
                                            gdw4078
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                                              Bob,  I had planned on trying your suggestion for the ROPS.  Once I get it off the sockets then I would use the overhead crain to move it out of the way.

                                               

                                              Plan forward for the next few weeks:

                                              Dismantle the backhoe

                                              Remove blade

                                              Remove ROPS

                                              Remove all actuators/controls/hoses

                                              Remove saddle bags

                                              Remove tracks 

                                              Remove radiator (need to be repaired.  has a leak)

                                              Remove engine

                                              Remove gas tank

                                              Remove dash board

                                              Hope to have all this done by end of the year

                                               

                                              Any tips?????

                                            • #33883
                                              pepage
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                                                Bob Rooks or Leon (mailman55) would have the best advice but in my humble opinion the tear down will be the easy part. Putting it back together will be another story. I had to remove the casting that holds my radiator for repair and I do not think I could have put it together without my hydraulic spreader. (HF 10 ton portable hydraulic equipment.) Another would be putting on your tracks. Remember reading about someone using a HF pull back ram and custom hooks.  I built something out of 1″ all thread and five nuts. Welded one nut on the end of the all thread so I could turn with a socket wrench. Then I made hooks out of 1/4″ metal and welded two nuts to each hook. Have not tried it yet but I am ready just in case I throw a track.

                                                Phil

                                              • #33884
                                                Bob Rooks
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                                                  Greg,

                                                  Your plan looks good. Here are my suggestions, in order. Leon may have others.

                                                  2) Dismantle the backhoe (Assume you mean to just drop and set aside.)

                                                  1) Remove blade

                                                  3) Remove ROPS

                                                  4) Remove all actuators/controls/hoses

                                                  6) Remove saddle bags

                                                  5) Remove tracks (Drop swing frames at this point if you're going deep. Block transmission and differential case.)

                                                  7) Remove radiator (need to be repaired.  has a leak)

                                                  10) Remove engine

                                                  9) Remove fuel tank

                                                  8) Remove dash board

                                                   

                                                  As far as the tracks go, make sure the track tensioner is backed off all the way (the yoke shaft on the idler screwed back into the spring housing.). A quick and cheap way to bring the ends together is by using a couple of 1/4″ choker chains and a load binder – either type works well.

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                                                • #33903
                                                  gdw4078
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                                                    Bob

                                                    If you remember at the beginning I was going to do a total tear down of the bulldozer.  Well this will include the BH.  She will get new hoses and a controller like you BH has, and a paint job.  Cylinder don't leak externally, so no overhaul of those I am thinking.

                                                    SO this is what I have done so far

                                                    0) Battery is out

                                                    1) WD 40 every bolt and nut

                                                    2) Bucket and arms are removed from BH and bucket cylinder.

                                                    3) Blade lift cylinders removed

                                                    4) Blade angle cylinders removed

                                                    5) Working on removing the blade

                                                    laugh

                                                  • #33905
                                                    Bob Rooks
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                                                      Excellent! hailking

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                                                    • #33910
                                                      RichWaugh
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                                                        If you're using the WD-40 as a penetrating oil, a much more effective solution is a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF.  I haven't found anything that loosens frozen bolts better, and I've tried all the proprietary products like B'Laster, Liquid Wrench, Kroil, etc.  Doesn't seem to matter what type of ATF you use, either.  You need to keep it in a pump can that has Viton seals or it will eat the rubber.

                                                      • #33918
                                                        gdw4078
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                                                          Latest.  My overhead crain kick ass.  Makes all of this so easy.  Here is a pic of the blade after removal.  Moving this out the way was a snap..

                                                           

                                                          Blade hanging from my crain

                                                           

                                                          ROPS was a little more difficult to remove.  I had to remove it in two steps.  First I had to add a second lift to my roof trusses

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          I used this lift to lift the ROPS off the sockets then I transfered to the crain and lowered it to the floor.  Again my crain kicks addROPS removed

                                                           So here is what she looks like today. 

                                                           

                                                          Weekend is coming and I will be working on here both days. We will see how far I get

                                                        • #33919
                                                          Little_Grizzly
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                                                            WOW! You have been doing a LOT of work.  I agree that overhead crane looks like it's indispensable. hmmm

                                                            Kinda scary seeing it all taken apart like that….and the worst is yet to come!

                                                            Good job and thanks for keeping us posted.  Personally I'm looking forward to seeing what the final drives look like. 

                                                          • #33920
                                                            Bob Rooks
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                                                              Nice work Greg. hailking

                                                              Looks like you didn't have to rotate the ROPS after all. laugh

                                                              Keep 'em coming. cool

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                                                            • #34152
                                                              gdw4078
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                                                                Quick update

                                                                Saddle bags removed

                                                                Tracks removed

                                                                All that is left to remove is the fuel tank and dash. 

                                                                First stuff to repair will be the radiator and cracks in the blade arms,  Then I will move onto the clutch, brakes and sterring pads. 

                                                                Picture coming soon

                                                              • #34174
                                                                Bob Rooks
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                                                                  Glad to hear you're making good progress.

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                                                                • #34175
                                                                  Bob Rooks
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                                                                    Proof positive that Mr. Mandelman is working on a solution to his problem by managing permissives.

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                                                                  • #34197
                                                                    gdw4078
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                                                                      update 2/15

                                                                      Worked on her last night.  As you can see I have alot of stuff removed

                                                                       

                                                                      Here is the front removed. 

                                                                       

                                                                      Took the cluch plate off just to see what it looked like inside

                                                                    • #34198
                                                                      Little_Grizzly
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                                                                        Wow.  Now those are scary pics!  Well done.  You are being thorough. 

                                                                        What is your ultimate plan here?  Total overhaul?  Even the paint?

                                                                      • #34203
                                                                        Bob Rooks
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                                                                          Excellent work Greg. Those overhead cranes are really nice to work with.

                                                                          I see you have what appears to be a shuttle clutch with a very bad gasket wink.

                                                                           

                                                                          I still can't post pictures here so they will be on the other website when I'm ready.

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                                                                        • #34215
                                                                          Bob Rooks
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                                                                            This is not an attempt in any way to detract members from CTOA, but rather just a means to share my pictures and videos. It's still in the development stage, adding pics & stuff.

                                                                            Stop by for a visit at  facebook.com/yuchaidozer wink

                                                                            If Hal removes the link just email or IM me.

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                                                                          • #34267
                                                                            gdw4078
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                                                                              Okay yall,  Need some help.  Got The clutch torn down last night and found this.  Lots of wear damage…frown

                                                                              This to means means I have a shuttle problem. Frozen on the shaft.  Anyone seen this? Already ordered a new part. 

                                                                              Next looking at the clutch plates I have no idea if they need to be replaced.  I have no idea what the original thickness were.  Any one have that number?  I was thinking I would replace the clutch rings since I already have it torn down, but why spend the money if I don't have too.

                                                                            • #34269
                                                                              Bob Rooks
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                                                                                I don't recognize the part, is there a reference number in the parts book?

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                                                                              • #34289
                                                                                gdw4078
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                                                                                  Bob figured I figured out what caused the wear.  The part is the shift arm for the clutch shuttle.  The shuttle was frozen to the drive shaft.

                                                                                  I had to use a gear puller and lots of lube to get it off the shaft.  Here is a pic of the two parts together

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Here is what the new part looks like

                                                                                • #34290
                                                                                  gdw4078
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                                                                                    It is offical.  This weekend I complete the tear down of the dozer.  Parts are everywhere in the shop

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Next task is repair of the clutch as seen in my last post.  I will be cleaning up all parts and applying a new coat of paint as I put it back together.

                                                                                  • #34292
                                                                                    Little_Grizzly
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                                                                                      I'm speechless.  Dear god!  That was a dozer at one point?  haha

                                                                                      I'm beyond impressed.  You are taking this seriously.  I think you're going to have a fine machine on your hands when you're done.

                                                                                      One thing:  That new shift fork for the shuttle clutch… it doesn't seem to have the splines on the interior that the original does.  Do you need a new shaft as well?

                                                                                    • #34294
                                                                                      RichWaugh
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                                                                                        It looks to me like it has splines on one side but not on the other and the two pictures were taken from different sides.

                                                                                      • #34285
                                                                                        Bob Rooks
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                                                                                          Now I get it. You have a manual shuttle clutch, like that found on a wheeled tractor

                                                                                          Those pics sure bring back memories. Had many Cats down to the bone like that.wink

                                                                                          You're doing a great job. And btw, i found the OEM joy-stick hydraulic valve stack from my dozer if you're still interested.

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                                                                                        • #34297
                                                                                          gdw4078
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                                                                                            It looks to me like it has splines on one side but not on the other and the two pictures were taken from different sides.”

                                                                                             

                                                                                            Acutally the splines are there,  it a combination of the picture angle and the fact the the prime coat has fill in the grooves.

                                                                                          • #34409
                                                                                            gdw4078
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                                                                                              Update

                                                                                              Got my radiator back from the shop.  All clean/painted and the leaks are fixed

                                                                                               

                                                                                               

                                                                                              Also I got some more clutch parts.  Shaft has be cleaned up on a lathe. And new part slide nicely on to the her

                                                                                               

                                                                                            • #34415
                                                                                              Bob Rooks
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                                                                                                They did a nice job on that radiator, looks like new. Nice straight fins. laugh

                                                                                                Curious where you were able to get the clutch parts?  Did you order direct?

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                                                                                              • #35094
                                                                                                gdw4078
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                                                                                                  To all,

                                                                                                  Been a very busy summer, but no progress on this project.  I am just about to get back on this soon.  Look for updates soon

                                                                                                • #35097
                                                                                                  Bob Rooks
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                                                                                                    Waiting patiently. laugh

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                                                                                                  • #35138
                                                                                                    gdw4078
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                                                                                                      Okay

                                                                                                      Back at it.  Working on tearing the rear end down.  I built me a moving moving work bench. As you can see I got LH drive housing removed.  I need to replace the steering clutches as the are close to being worn out.

                                                                                                      Here is a close up look at the steering clutches

                                                                                                      Very rusty.  Close up of drive housing

                                                                                                      Close up of steering clutch removed.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Lots of dirty gear oil removed as well

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      By the way, since I have this thing totally torn down,  If there are any pictures you want me to talk let me know and I will see what I can do

                                                                                                    • #35142
                                                                                                      Bob Rooks
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                                                                                                        So far, so good. Making progress. laugh

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                                                                                                      • #35170
                                                                                                        Tame
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                                                                                                          Hi Greg, and everyone else!

                                                                                                          I will be following this closely… I have a 1993 Guilin 252L over here in NZ. This last week it developed shuttle issues, so no doubt I will be heading in a similar direction.

                                                                                                          I think I got a bit low on oil in the shuttle clutch housing, and it is now working hard in forward and slipping a bit as it engages, but reverse is still working fine. I have taken of the lid of the shuttle clutch housing, and there is nothing obvious to see damaged. With Hi/Lo in neutral and 1/2/3 stick in neutral, reverse engages and the engine ticks over freely, but when I engage forward the engine labours and chuggs, suggesting that something somewhere is partially seized or something. Any suggestions?

                                                                                                          Cheers,

                                                                                                          Simeon

                                                                                                        • #35174
                                                                                                          Tame
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                                                                                                            Greg, I'm not sure if you have them, but I have the operation manual and the parts list for the 252L if you need copies.

                                                                                                            Cheers

                                                                                                          • #35188
                                                                                                            Tame
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                                                                                                              Been working on my shuttle issue today

                                                                                                              I removed the selector shaft and yoke or fork… and low and behold it looked just like your one, Greg. Badly burnt, worn, and misshaped.

                                                                                                              So certainly the yoke needs either replacing or possibly making an improved version (which at present I am thinking is the wise way to go as it appears there is a weakness here)… but the question remains as to what other damage there is.

                                                                                                              I think I may do a temporary repair of the yoke, and just try it to see is it will free up the pressure plate… else it is out with the engine and make my dozer look like your one!

                                                                                                              Where did you manage to get parts? The Chinese dozer chap in NZ said he couldn't help, and put me on to East Wind in Aussie, but they have their doubts too on parts for a 252L. 🙁

                                                                                                              Cheers

                                                                                                            • #35224
                                                                                                              gdw4078
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                                                                                                                Hello Simoen,

                                                                                                                Your symptom are exactly the same as mine where except I let it go to long. 

                                                                                                                The shuttle bearings seized up on the pressure plate and the drive shaft causing the engine to labour. Best thing for you to do is replace all the same parts I am.

                                                                                                                My parts vendor in the US is Tim Nelson of Farmboy Tractors.  He had all the parts except for the clutch plates.  I found a manufacture in China that would make me a set of 300.  I keep 14 from myself and sold the rest to Tim.  Tim contact is Tim Nelson [tim@farmboystractors.com].  Most of the time I send him a picture of the parts.  That way I get what I need.  I am just about to order steering clutch parts and brake pads as they are worn out too. 

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                I would like a copy of your parts list.  I don't have one.  I do have the owners manual which I have converted to Microsoft Word.  Cleaned up some of the english too while I was at it. 

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                I will be upgrading other things as I put the dozer back together. Electrical fuse box.  Adding hydraulic pressure gauge. SAE gauges.  Spin on fuel filter/water seperator and a single handle blade controller.  I am also updating the controller for the backhoe to a two hangle design.  As for the engine, I overhauled her about 100 hour ago. Not much to do there.  I think my fuel time is off as I get black smoke during operation.

                                                                                                                Only upgrade I have left on the engine is to changing the air filter over to a cone shaped K&N.

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                Cheers

                                                                                                                Greg

                                                                                                              • #35269
                                                                                                                Tame
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                                                                                                                  Hi guys, so it is turning out to be a busy few weeks, so not managed to finish fixing the dozer yet, but nearly there. I managed to track down a couple of release bearings that were close enough, and a replacement main shaft seal (140x110x12). The selector yoke I built up with weld and re ground. The slip ring I polished. The pressure plate I ground….

                                                                                                                  The problem with being in NZ is it often takes to long to get parts from other parts of the world, so I tend to end up modifying or making… If it is something I can't make do, then I will pursue more seriously getting it from USA or China.

                                                                                                                  Greg, when I get a spare hour or two I'll scan in that parts manual and email it to you. Thanks for all info. How many hours has your 252 done? Mine seemed to have no wear other than the damage from the seized thrust bearing. But frankly that is my fault, it had no oil in there!!!!

                                                                                                                  I got the engine back in yesterday and tried the drive, all seemed ok shunting in the work shop, so just need to put all the panels and guards back on… Next week maybe. I'm working out in the bush this week on the IHI is35GX excavator…

                                                                                                                  Once I get the dozer fully back together the mission is with the dozer and excavator to cut the new track through a small canyon in the bush into 80 acres of farm that we have never been able to access with machines… Should be alot of fun.

                                                                                                                • #35272
                                                                                                                  gdw4078
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                                                                                                                    More pictures of tear down. Here are the steering clutch parts. Seriously rusted and frozen together when I went to take it apart.

                                                                                                                    Here is the brake band.  Completely worn out.  Sitting on the rusty brake/steering drum

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                    I am taking the entire thanks giving week off.  My goal is to finish the last of the tear down.  Pressure wash the part and start put her back together.

                                                                                                                  • #35274
                                                                                                                    Tame
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                                                                                                                      Greg, do you think it had got wet in there, or is it just condensation? Pretty rusty hey. Finished reassembling mine yesterday, got her adjusted and work good, so took her up into the hills last night and worked until it got too dark. Raining today, so not working…

                                                                                                                      Do you know if the brake band in the same as the newer yct dozers? Hope you get replacements ok.

                                                                                                                      What was the hour clock reading on your 252? 

                                                                                                                    • #35275
                                                                                                                      Bob Rooks
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                                                                                                                        Tame wrote:

                                                                                                                        “Do you know if the brake band in the same as the newer yct dozers?.

                                                                                                                        On the new style brake bands the lining is thicker, and they are segmented. The idea was that you could replace them from the top without removing the final drives, but Yuchai recanted that so you still have to pull the finals.

                                                                                                                        vomit

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                                                                                                                      • #35331
                                                                                                                        Tame
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                                                                                                                          Today my dozer has developed issues with the left track. The brake tends to slip, and the steering clutch tends to slip… I adjusted the brake tighter, and it helped, but didn't solve it. I tried adjusting the steering clutch linkage, but no improvement. I presume that the steering brake and clutch are dry? Or are they wet?

                                                                                                                          Do you think that suggests there is oil in there making them slip…? Cheers.

                                                                                                                        • #35336
                                                                                                                          Bob Rooks
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                                                                                                                            If you remove the drain plugs on the bottom of the steering compartments, that will tell all.

                                                                                                                            These clutches are spring actuated, and are the dry type. If things start slipping like you describe, it sounds like they are being lubricated – and they're not supposed to be. Check the final drive and transmission oil levels.

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                                                                                                                          • #35343
                                                                                                                            Tame
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                                                                                                                              Righty oh, I'll have a look-see this morning. Cheers Bob

                                                                                                                            • #35350
                                                                                                                              gdw4078
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                                                                                                                                Steering and Brakes are dry. My steering clutchs are not worn one bit. It appears my systems was completely rusted together and I was using the brakes to steer and control the dozer. At least I won't need to buy new steering clutch pads at $45 U.S. each. Parts vendor I work with is Farmboy Tractors in Tennesee. They have had every part I needed.

                                                                                                                                Simeon, I have 400 hrs on the tach. Engine overhauled at 250 hrs, because it had sat idle for a long time before I bought it. It was not running so I got it cheap. Did you get a chance to scan the part book?

                                                                                                                                Weather here in Texas has been nice, so I have been doing other things

                                                                                                                                No progress on the dozer. When the winter weather gets here I will be working on it more.

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